AnonyMouse_8466 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Welcome magscycling - hope you enjoy the Forum! Maz
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Still on my first cup of tea this morning so my brain not quite awake yet When does the 15 hr entitlement have to come into place? 2010? Can't honestly remember! (just had my second cup of tea and am not feeling much more clued up...) Maz
AnonyMouse_8623 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Just checked on the sure start website and the entitlement does come in from 2010!
Guest Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 In Leicestershire it starts in April 2008 - Yes this year and that in 2010 it will be changing to 20 hours per week!!!! We intend to open for an extra half hour per day so our hours will be: 9.15 - 12.15. I am going to a workshop on 13th Feb (yes in half term) to try and find out more about it all. Workshops are also being held in: Melton Mowbray - 28th Jan Coalville - 30th Jan Oadby - 31st Jan Hinckley - 4th Feb Braunstone Town - 8th Feb Loughborough - 11th Feb At these workshops they will explain: * How the extra fnding will benefit the children * Are we ready for the 15 hours (NO!!!!) * How will we promote the entitlement to parents * How will LCC administer the funding.
AnonyMouse_665 Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Hi i am in Gloucestershire and we are already doing the 15hr entiltlement as a pilot scheme although we have not been asked for feedback yet on how it was implemented or how it is going. we are a new playgroup opened September 2008 the easiest way for us to implement this was to register as full day care which i can see alot of playgroups having to do to be more flexible. vouchers can be used up to 6 hrs in any day and can be shared up to a max of two settings eg a child goes to nursery and playgroup. we open 9.00-3.00 mon-thurs and 9.00-1.00 fri the children attend 9.00-12.00 or 9.00-1.00 (have school dinners or packed lunch) 9.00-2.00 or 9.00-3.00 these are for voucherable children only (term after 3rd birthday) The afternoons are quieter so we offer sessions from 1.00-3.00 for 2-3 year olds. this seems to work ok apart from being on the go allday. angela
Guest Posted January 29, 2008 Posted January 29, 2008 Ours doesn't come in till 2010 and then it will be 15 hrs...... just wish they would get on with it.... soo much talk about it...
Guest Posted January 29, 2008 Posted January 29, 2008 This might be a really silly question, but if the entitlement is so flexible when would the staff have their lunch. As we are sessional, the staff currently have half an hour lunch break inbetween the am and pm sessions (have to clear away from am and set up for pm as well as eat lunch in the half hour) Would it mean that the stff would have to stagger their working hours? We are all part time, so some of us work mornings some work afternoons, and some work both. Hi. First time I've ever logged on but had to comment on article! I too run a sessional preschool and having similar problems. We use the village school hall and currently open for 4 2.5 hr sessions. Our development officer advised us to open from 8.30 (instead of 9.00) until 11.30 so we cover the 3 hours but we are having difficulty persuading the school head to make the hall available to us on the fifth day. She has been picked up on it by Ofsted for not having access to her own hall for the school children! By opening from 8.30am we have been told we can use that time for setting up while the children are there (as we normally start at 8.15) and only have to inform parents that the preschool is 'available' from 8.30. Most parents have said they won't come until 9.00 anyway as they drop the older siblings off at school at 8.50. I am gradually working the head around this problem as she realises how valuable we are as a feeder for the school but regarding your situation could you not get petitions from parents and letters of persuasion from ofsted (such a good report!) and your mentor rather than have to close?
AnonyMouse_8129 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Hi we are another Leicestershire setting - sessional - and have just switched to the 15 hrs in readiness for April as follows We only have access to building 4 days so we do Mornings 8.50 - 11.50 then afternoons 12.05 - 3.05 This fits in with school drop off and pick up so parents happy. Our afternoon sessions combines lunch - which you are able to do as part of the Foundaiton stage curriculum so we always discuss healthy eating etcetcetc. We can therfore offer full 5 sessions per week of 15 hours to anyone who wants it. After Easter we will be opening more afternoons (only one so far) to provide space for more children. On those days not open in the afternoon we run lunch club stratight after sessions from 11.50 = 12.30. As far as staff breaks go as we only need 2 staff to man lunch the staff get a short break one from 11.50 - 12.05 and the other 12.05 - 12.25. i act as a floater and stay til about 1 to clear up after lunch - seems to keep everyone happy. If the child attends morning and afternoon parents come for the 15 min break and take children away from premises to allow us to set up lunch etc.... and meet requirements to have a break Hectic but seems to work! Lets be positive about it - I think we're stuck with it! Will be interesting to see what happens in Sep as no-one seems to know what stipulations will apply to "sessional" care from then - absolutely nothing in EYFS guidance to indicate what we will have to do! Good luck to anyone else juggling figures...
Guest Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 We are another setting in shared village hall and are working with another group in neighbouring village so we both offer 4 sessions recomending our parents use the other setting for the 5th day.
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 Hello zeebeemee and sharonduthie Welcome to the Forum! Maz
AnonyMouse_8623 Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 We are having problems with staff not agreeing on the times we need to do for this changeover. We'll be starting the 15 hours after Easter and as BrendaS said on a previous post we in Leicestershire will be going to 20 hours entitlement in 2010. Some staff say it will change the group entirely and there are mutterings of job changes afoot. I agree there are lots of changes coming, hopefully for the better but we'll just have to wait and see. Welcome to zeebeemee - love the name - enjoy the forum!!
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Is anyone trialling the 15 hours in a school nursery as my head has just informed me that we will be doing so in September?
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 I am attached to a school nursery and have been piloting the 15 hours since last April!!! The school followed in Sept. It works brilliantly if you can work alongside the school which we do. Most of the parents changed over to access the 15 free hours and I cannot wait until my other nursery can do the same in another borough. I would add the nursery and school are full!!!!
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 How do you offer the 15hours deploy staff etc. ? As a school we work school times 9-3 so not sure how we can be flexible.
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Just to ask another question - is the 15hrs compulsory or can we operate as we are 12.5 hrs? We have a system which works well for us & parents.
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 My guess would be that it is not compulsory. In the same way that some settings do not offer the full 12 1/2 now and are just fundedd pro rata. Al
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 http://www.surestart.gov.uk/improvingquali...yeducation/faq/ "The government is committed to increasing the free early education entitlement for three- and four-year-olds to 15 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year by 2010 and enabling parents to use the entitlement more flexibly. Twenty pathfinder local authorities are delivering the extended entitlement of 15 hours a week from April 2007." I would say that it will be compulsory from 2010
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks Marion - another query - I know from our current waiting list that future parents want to remain with the seperate 2.5hr sessions which we currently offer? Also, we have a great staff team who I feel would not want to increase or decrease their hours/ times of work - we are all part time and what we have in place works really well. I'm just a bit concerned that we may be forced into a situation that neither the parents nor the staff require/want and any change to the premises lease (ie extending to provide lunch cover) won't be able to take place - the premises is heavily used by other community groups so we literally pack up and leave after a morning session as the next group walks in to set up. I keep hoping that things won't change, but getting a bit worried now.
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 We thought we had until 2010 to work it out but the head wants a solution THIS WEEK! We have been told we need to be flexible and basically stop allocating times/days and let parents pick and choose on a day to day week to week basis. I really can't see how we can work that way.
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 I always thought that nursery education wasn't compulsory so parents won't have to take up the extra time if they don't want to. When you say compulsory Marion do you mean that settings will have to offer the extra time even if parents don't use it-it has to be available? It is going to cause a lot of settings big problems if they are in shared premises. Linda
AnonyMouse_665 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 its looks like settings are really going to have look at how they provide sessions. The government are reallly forcing people away from the traditional playgroup with sessional care to these providers having to provide full day care. we registered as a playgroup for full day care in september. I am now paying £155 instead of £12 to be registered (which is all set to increase but thats another story.) As mentioned earlier we are in the pilot in Glos and have to provide a minimum of 2.5 hrs and a max of 6 hrs. It is working really well in our setting with children coming for 3,4,5 or 6 hrs each day. We also charge anyone £3.18 (current NEG funding rate) per hour if they want any more than their 15 hours which is also popular especilally with working parents. i do feel like we are now a nursery for 3-5yr olds rather than a playgroup though. angela
AnonyMouse_2846 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 The poor children wont know if there coming or going on an adhoc situ! So we would need staff in anyhow and how are you meant to plan for their individual needs if you dont know when they are in? And we already have children that attend 3 different settings,all thye want to do is spend time at home with mum!
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 Sorry Linda I meant compulsory to offer the extended hours even if parents don't want it (which in my area is highly unlikely). Although I have been asked lately if I heard of the plans to make nursery education compulsory for all... which I hadn't!
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 Sorry Linda I meant compulsory to offer the extended hours even if parents don't want it (which in my area is highly unlikely). Although I have been asked lately if I heard of the plans to make nursery education compulsory for all... which I hadn't! I'd say that the Nursery curriculum ie: EYFS is compulsory for all as of Sept 08, you can't register unless you offer it!! Peggy
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 With the increase in hours, does the funding go up to cover this?
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 Sorry Peggy I did it again... I meant COMPULSORY attendance not curriculum although it will be compulsory in September.
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 I am still confused. Surely there can't be compulsory attendance. What about those children whose parents decide to keep them at home-which I know I would have done with my first child. So is it that settings have to offer 15 hours to each child or that they have to attend 15 hours? Nursery education is not compulsory. Linda
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 No, I don't think it's compulsory attendence, otherwise they would not be using the term 'flexible', it is up to parents how many, if at all, of the funded nursery education they access for their children. BrendaS, the actual rate of funding is being re-considered following the recent consultation and audit enquiry that all settings were asked to complete. However, any changes are not due to take place until, I think, 2009 at the earliest. Nursery World showed a DFES table of the inconsistency between maintained and PVI funding this week, it appears maintained sector get funded per number of places available, rather than number of places taken up. The rationalle being maintained ector have to employ a teacher. I've previously said that I thought that if PVI settings were funded according to how many children (of eligable age) they were registered for, compared to doing the cumbersome, beaurocratic headcount, this would release ill spent admin finance to the settings, and reduce te budget nightmare of seasonal / termly attendance differentiations. Peggy
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 We could allocate places over a minimum 3 days. So a parent could be in all day Mon/Tues and one hour on a Wednesday. What happened was they paid for one day only and yes the NEG went up to the 15 hours. The school nursery extended their hours with before and after school club. I suppose we are lucky that school places are limited but 15 children left me to go to reception class in September and we were full again by December plus the school gains our pupils at 4/5. Hopefully 6 soon!!!!!!!
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 No, I don't think it's compulsory attendence, otherwise they would not be using the term 'flexible', it is up to parents how many, if at all, of the funded nursery education they access for their children. I've previously said that I thought that if PVI settings were funded according to how many children (of eligable age) they were registered for, compared to doing the cumbersome, beaurocratic headcount, this would release ill spent admin finance to the settings, and reduce te budget nightmare of seasonal / termly attendance differentiations. Peggy Sorry I've done it yet again... I am not suggesting that nursery education is compulsory only saying that I have been asked lately if I heard plans for this becoming the case in the future ... which I haven't. From September maintained nurseries will be funded by actual numbers attending rather than how many children are registered
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