Guest Biker Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I am considering beginning my studying again.Currently I am a senior practitioner in an extended school which in practice means (with my colleague who i job share with)i manage all the services we offer. I gained the Advanced Diploma a few years ago and at the time I considered going on to study for my foundation degree.However the timing wasn't right and i put it off! With the introduction of the EYP status i am feeling that eventually, to continue in my present role or even to move on to any new challenges i need to pick up my studies again. My local college are running the foundation degree just wondering if that is the best course of action or should I look at a different degree programme. Also those clever people who have completed their degrees and or Eyp status is it worth it? Do you think we will ever be truly recognised as professionals? Help! Biker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 if you want to do your eyp then the fd is your best bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Everyone I know that has done the FD has found it very worthwhile and relevant.....if a little stresful at times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Good luck in your studies. However i must ask how many more hoops do nursery nurses have to jump through to prove that we are indeed professionals. I did my a.d.c.e 12 years ago and it has resulted in nothing ! apart from gaining more personal knowledge. A mother helper came from a bank 4 years ago and with the help of our deputy head gained hilta status in no time and now thinks she knows everything and how can she ? She has no underpinning knowledge but does anybody care!!!!, she can talk the talk and that appears to be the thing that gets you through. If i sound disgruntled i most certainly am . All the teachers i work with did their teaching degree, though some only did a cetificate in education, and apart from lea training that we all do they haven't had to prove that they are still able to teach after so many years so why should experienced trained nursery nurses have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Also those clever people who have completed their degrees and or Eyp status is it worth it?Do you think we will ever be truly recognised as professionals? Help! Biker. I'd deny the 'clever' tag but I have done my Foundation Degree and I have to say it was a most worthwhile course of study. It raised my confidence, improved my knowledge about how children learn and develop and if nothing else, reminded me of how little I know in the vast subject area! It taught me to be much more reflective and to continually look for ways to improve. I'd definitely recommend it. I'm half way through my BA and begin the validation part of my EYPS in September, so for me the jury is still out! That said, the feedback I have got from EYPs is that their confidence in their own ability has soared, and that having the status has been of real benefit in their groups. As for whether we'll ever be seen as professionals, I think EYPS themselves will be key in helping achieve this - we'll all need to promote the sector with missionary zeal and spread the message that not just anyone can work with children. Too often the choice to go into childcare is offered when young people have no fixed idea about what to do post GCSE. I was astonished when an FE college in a neighbouring Borough told my daughter that she was too bright to go into childcare! Rant over! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I was astonished when an FE college in a neighbouring Borough told my daughter that she was too bright to go into childcare! Maz To quote yourself (CAF thread) 'The only surprise there is that you're surprised!' Will these folk NEVER learn! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7227 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Good luck in your studies. However i must ask how many more hoops do nursery nurses have to jump through to prove that we are indeed professionals. I did my a.d.c.e 12 years ago and it has resulted in nothing ! apart from gaining more personal knowledge. A mother helper came from a bank 4 years ago and with the help of our deputy head gained hilta status in no time and now thinks she knows everything and how can she ? She has no underpinning knowledge but does anybody care!!!!, she can talk the talk and that appears to be the thing that gets you through. If i sound disgruntled i most certainly am . All the teachers i work with did their teaching degree, though some only did a cetificate in education, and apart from lea training that we all do they haven't had to prove that they are still able to teach after so many years so why should experienced trained nursery nurses have to? I couldn't agree more. It seems you only need bits of paper to say you have that GCSE/Alevel/degree and a PGCE and volia you can be in charge of 25 reception ON YOUR OWN but with no underpinning of knowledge/idea of child development BUT you can deliver the curriculum. I remember EYE magazine running a campaign to value nursery nurses more, with regard to pay and conditions and it would seem to me that the EYPS has come from this however it is making the stakes higher for already well qualified and experienced nursery nurses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7227 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I'd deny the 'clever' tag but I have done my Foundation Degree and I have to say it was a most worthwhile course of study. It raised my confidence, improved my knowledge about how children learn and develop and if nothing else, reminded me of how little I know in the vast subject area! It taught me to be much more reflective and to continually look for ways to improve. I'd definitely recommend it. I'm half way through my BA and begin the validation part of my EYPS in September, so for me the jury is still out! That said, the feedback I have got from EYPs is that their confidence in their own ability has soared, and that having the status has been of real benefit in their groups. As for whether we'll ever be seen as professionals, I think EYPS themselves will be key in helping achieve this - we'll all need to promote the sector with missionary zeal and spread the message that not just anyone can work with children. Too often the choice to go into childcare is offered when young people have no fixed idea about what to do post GCSE. I was astonished when an FE college in a neighbouring Borough told my daughter that she was too bright to go into childcare! Rant over! Maz I did a year of BA hons in ECS and it really extended my knowledge in the area however I ended up doing the rest of my degree in fine art in some ways I wish I had stuck at the ECS but I was struggling with it and doing the art added another string to my bow and I am able to apply that to my work in early years. I remember when I did my BTEC there was all these girls who did it that thought it would be easy and because they were encouraged by their parents to do a course post GCSE. (a friend of mine mentioned she nearly did the same course at the same college for these reasons and I have never felt so insulted! it almost implied that she was only considering doing it for 'something to do') due to this the childcare and education courses had the highest drop out rates of any FE course in the college at that time I suppose having to have the degree for the EYPS shows peoples dedication and commitment to the profession but it still angers me that people have to do the degree, why does the ADCE have no standing now or the BTEC higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_73 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Good luck in your studies. However i must ask how many more hoops do nursery nurses have to jump through to prove that we are indeed professionals. All the teachers i work with did their teaching degree, though some only did a cetificate in education, and apart from lea training that we all do they haven't had to prove that they are still able to teach after so many years so why should experienced trained nursery nurses have to? Hello there Patch, I do understand where you are coming from, I've worked with many outstanding nursery nurses over the years. But sadly teacher DO constantly have to prove their 'worth' as teachers through performance management, constant observations (especially if you are unlucky enough to be in failing school), and of course OFSTED. If you dont show your worth, then you can fall into 'capability' procedures which, having supported teachers in this category, is the most unpleasant , demoralising and depressing experience that anyone could ever have to go through. I haven't on the other hand seen TAs or nursery nurses put through this if they are 'struggling'. I think when you stand back and look at the bigger picture, our profession (whichever part of it we are in) will always have people from all different backgrounds with differing skills and differing levels of commitment. I am very privileged in my job that I get to see and meet all sort of practitioners, from the person with years of experience but little in the way of bits of paper, to the person with loads of paper but no common sense, to everything in between. This goes for teachers as well as nursery nurses, TAs, LSA, NQVs, EYPS, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Quite agree Mundia, it's so easy to get drawn into a teacher versus experienced nursery nurse argument which isn't truly based on fact because as you say the levels of knowledge, skills, and common sense are so variable irrelevant of qualifications. I am a strong believer in lifelong learning so see the benefits of further study, as eloquantly described by HappyMaz. However, I too have a chip on my shoulder about how the government measures the value of practitioners, based only on academic qualifications, and hopefully they will enable non academics a route to EYPS in the future ( not fair on those who are studying now for FD or degree's, but I think will be neseccary just to get enough EYPS people leading all the settings) Biker, depending how long it is since you did your ADCE you may be able to APL for it, and go into a full degree at year 2. I got APL for mine and got credit for year one ( although I do have cert ed - post compulsory as well). The ADCE may give credit for some year 1 modules, have a chat with your local training provider. Good luck and I hope you find the course you are looking for. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 p.s. I achieved my ADCE in 1999 and got credit for it in 2007, which is 3 yrs over the normal 5 yr limit. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biker Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Biker, depending how long it is since you did your ADCE you may be able to APL for it, and go into a full degree at year 2. I got APL for mine and got credit for year one ( although I do have cert ed - post compulsory as well). The ADCE may give credit for some year 1 modules, have a chat with your local training provider. Good luck and I hope you find the course you are looking for. Thanks Peggy I had not thought of that so will certainly look into that! Many thanks for everyones encouragement I know in my heart of hearts it will be worth it on a personal level but still have doubts about how much difference it would make professionally long term.From the replies here it would seem I am not alone in this! Biker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I work in a reception class and during a recent ofsted i was observed as a 'practitioner 'due to the teacher i work with being on long term sick leave i had covered the class for 3 weeks and guess what we have all been involved in the aftermath. All our staff in reception are observed and assessed just as the teachers are and having the privileage to have worked with so many great teachers i feel totally involved in the team . I think you are being unfair to say that nursery nurses and ta's etc dont go through it when things are getting tough. For the last ofsted all reception support staff worked many, many unpaid hours and without a mention in the final report how do you think we felt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_79 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Thats really unfair, Patch I agree and your head should have made sure that you were recognised as the dedicated people you are. Heads can do that, I worked for one who did. Unfortunately, in many cases the support staff do not show the same dedication that your team have done, in many cases they are not paid to do so and do not do so. For everyone of you who goes that extra mile there are also those that dont. Tight budgets too often result in people being taken advantage of and covering for absences. It actually makes me cross that the children and the teacher can be supported and yet the support person can be left alone if the teacher is unavailable. You must however be recognised for the excellent work you do for your head to be able to get away with this. I am old enough to remember the days when we worked alone in our classrooms and to remember how strange it was to have another adult in the room when TAs became more widely employed although as a nursery practitioner I had been used to working in a team too. Many of you do a fantastic job and I know I would be lost without the TA I currently work with, she is worth her weight in gold and I tell her so frequently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_73 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 hello there patch, I probably didn't express myself very clearly. I quite agree, having been in 3 schools over the years in special measure or notice to improve, everyone suffers, and very often the support staff more so. I didn't ever suggest that TAs or other support staff don't go through it when the going gets tough, not at all, everyone does! I was referring to your specific comment that teachers don't have to prove they can still teach, and trying to point out how they do, and sometimes it is unpleasant. I'm talking here about individuals who are struggling in the job, not teams who are in difficult circumstances in their school. But when individual TAs are struggling with the job, the procedures are different. I hope that I have made myself a little clearer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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