Guest Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 Hi All I know this is probably going to fall on very few ears at the moment but I just wondered what your policy is on taking children who are not clean or dry. I was at a meeting last week of pre-schools from the local area and we were talking about the age we took children Somebody said that they were not going to lower their age intake to two and a half as they didn't want children they were going to have to change. Their policy is that they had to be clean and dry. Now, I don't know where I got this from, but I was lead to believe that we could not discriminate against children because they weren't toilet trained. Has anybody else heard this and if so where was it from? I know our OFSTED inspectors agreed with me but that is not where I heard it initially. Linda
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 Hi Linda Im not sure on that one all i can say say is ive always had it in my policy that we will take children dry or not..even when we didnt take them till the term after they were 3yrs. I do have to say that even now we take them from 2 1/2 we still have very few that actually need changing whilst in our care.
Guest Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 Hi Linda .........I agreee with hali - we take them in nappies, and there are very few that actually need changing during the course of the morning. It takes up more staff time to clean up the little accidents when they are being trained! (And then of course there is trying to find them clean clothes that they like and will wear, because they haven't brought a spare set of clothes with them!)..... (And then they go home in them, and we never see the clothes again!) Hope you're all enjoying the holidays! Janice p.s. - I would have thought that when you set the age at which you will take children from, you have to take whatever comes with that age group - and if you take them younger to increase your numbers, then the nappies come too!
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 I have been in my current job for just over 4 years but I remember in my previous job one of the stipulations for offereing a nursery place was that the chld was clean and dry. However, at some point and I cant remember when, that stipulation was dropped and I remember being told we could not deny a child a place simply because he/she was not toilet trained. In my current job I was told early on that it was classed as discrimination - I think it comes under our equal ops policy! IN a nutshell the onlyreason for refusing a child a place is if we are full and then we offer a place on the waiting list. We currently have one child in what mum calls pants (but they are pull ups and to me no different to a disposable nappy!) and it is rare that the child needs changing during the morning.
AnonyMouse_63 Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 Hi Geraldine Like you, I have one child in pull ups and the other children have started to ask why that boy is wearing a nappy!! (staff tactfully explained why) We have never refused to take a child in nappies and you are right about it coming under your equql ops policy (Ofsted told me so). In our prospectus we do state that as we are based on a shool site that nappy changing facitlites are limited. Carol
AnonyMouse_1490 Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 I do not exclude children who are not toilet trained. I have welcomed children with a colostomy bag. I always explain to parents that if their child were to need changing on a regular basis they must be on the end of the phone if changing a child would put staff ratios too low. They are allowed to give an agreed named person to change the child. I have called a parent a few times. Once when a staff member was looking after a sick child and if I had changed another child it would have left 1 staff member who was new to the setting looking after 24 others. Another time a child who was not clean obviously had come down with a stomach bug.I have worked with parents to get children clean. If children appear to show an interest in going to the toilet I am prepared to help so I rely on parents to continue this at home.
Guest Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 Thanks for those replies. It was I had thought that most settings are now taking children who are not toilet trained as part of their own policy. This is something we have done for a while, not just because we thought we had to. So I was quite surprised at the attitude these two pre-schools were taking. I always find that the majority of children who aren't toilet trained when they start soon latch on to what they are supposed to be doing by example from the other children. Linda
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 30, 2004 Posted July 30, 2004 Hi, What will the settings who dont admit children in nappies do if a child with SEN applies and is in nappies at the age of 3 or 4? Some children need nappies at a much older age, are this children going to be denied access to mainstream settings? Hope everyones enjoying the break.
Guest Posted July 30, 2004 Posted July 30, 2004 Hi Rea These pre-schools said that they would take children if they had a medical problem or were SEN. It was the other children they wouldn't take. Linda
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 30, 2004 Posted July 30, 2004 Oh thats ok then! Good job all children develop at the same pace then isnt it!!!! The things some settings can get away with
Guest Posted July 30, 2004 Posted July 30, 2004 I totally agree with you there Ria. They are not taking into account the rate at which children develop. I think that some people feel that the parents are at fault to some degree-that they should have them toilet trained by the time they start pre-school and that if they're not then its because they couldn't be bothered etc. But even if that is the case is it fair to deny the child a place? I always tell parents that we would prefer them to be dry and clean but if they're not then at least a good way down the line. We ask that they are put in pull ups rather than nappies as they are easier to manage. And for the most part it works well. Linda
Guest Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 hi everybody how sad am i i'm on holiday and was having withdrwl symtoms. Not having contacted any of you. The polidy in my nursery is that we take all children irrespective of their toiletting needs. To take chidlren with SEN who need to be changed and no other 'normal' children would amount to discrimination. Leo
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 not sad at all Leo. I come on because my children are the ones the media write about. Always on PS2, gamecube, X box etc and I've got no-one to talk to.
Guest Posted August 27, 2004 Posted August 27, 2004 This is really interesting. It is very common for nurseries here in California to refuse to take children who are not fully potty trained. It leads to some very stressed parents putting pressure on children who are really not ready to potty-learn. A funny story, though, of an acquaintance of mine who was getting desperate as her child was not showing any interest in the potty, and she had his name down for nursery. She decided to go the bribery route, and went out and bought a big bag of toys, saying that he could have one every time he pooped in the potty. The thing that was not so smart, was that she bought some fairly major toys, not just cheapo stuff. Her son went from a one-poop-in-the-nappy-every-two-days boy, to a five-or-six-poops-in-the-potty-a-day boy, overnight!! It cost her an arm and a leg, and he didnt forget for a long long time........ As for my daughter, she got wind of this and thought it sounded a good idea. I'm not a fan at all of rewards for things like this, but my husband told her she could have a jelly bean instead if she used the potty. Her answer was "I'm not doing it for less than three" She then used the potty three times, saved the jelly beans in a pot, then told him "I'm done now, I only needed nine." That was the end of the potty-learning for us for several months. Then suddenly one day she got up and said she was going to do it, and that was that. 100% success, nightime included. Luckily we had no pressure of getting trained for school, but I do wonder what damage is done to all these children out here who have to race to be trained by such a young age, when really they need to be allowed to do it when they are developmentally ready. As an aside, I think I prefer the phrase 'potty learning' to 'training'. It sounds more child focused to me. What do others think? I only came across this recently, and it seemed more like you're talking about development, than training, which is not what we want to do to children in other areas. Thoughts, anyone??
AnonyMouse_1195 Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 In our school nursery where we take children from three and a half we used to say that children had to be toilet trained before they could come in. My understanding now is that this is against the inclusion policy and counts as discrimination, as we would not be responding to that child's needs and ging it equal opps. In reception last year I had a boy who was still wetting and soling and we just got on with it with regular toiltetting and helping him become responsible for changin himself when he had an accident. there were one or two occasions when i had to call his mum in but that was when we had run out of dry clothes to change him into. I would be interested to know if there was a definate rulling somewhere on this?
AnonyMouse_79 Posted August 28, 2004 Posted August 28, 2004 Nicola! Potty nightmare was more like it in my house, certainly no training involved! Thank goodness that was all over many years ago as said toddler is now 17! It was almost a no go area until he announced just before he turned 3 that he didnt need a nappy at nighttime. Reluctantly I left the nappy off and we nevr loked back, day or night! Son number removed his own nappy and was dry and using the toilet within 4 days, at 2.5 yrs. No potty at all for him! Surfice it to say I was relieved, if I hadnt been already pregnant the potty training or learning would have decided me not to have any more!
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted September 7, 2004 Posted September 7, 2004 I was told today that the local Surestart centre has refused a 3year old a place because he's still in nappies (he's on our register now!)... how's that for letting us all know the 'rule'???
AnonyMouse_64 Posted September 8, 2004 Posted September 8, 2004 There's a playgroup near us who will take children in nappies but won't change them. They tell the parents they will ring them up if their child needs changing, so the parents can come and do it themselves. I have a little boy (not yet 3) who went there initially and came to me for one morning a week. He has language difficulties (and behavioural problems as a result) and the playworkers at the other group made it plain they didn't much like him. They left him in a dirty nappy for a whole morning so that when his mum got him home it was dried on. Needless to say he doesn't go there anymore. They only meet for 2hours twice a week so don't get inspected at all. It seems they can do anything they like. I don't know if groups in Engalnd are the same.
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted September 9, 2004 Posted September 9, 2004 We're the same regarding not having to register if meetings are 2 hours or less, but hopefully not regarding not changing nappies!!! Sue
AnonyMouse_64 Posted September 9, 2004 Posted September 9, 2004 What I can't understand is that the women who run the group, although older, have had children of their own. How any mother could leave a child in a dirty nappy on purpose just astounds me. Unfortunately, since they're not regulated, they seem to think they can do whatever they please.
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted September 10, 2004 Posted September 10, 2004 Isn't it easier though to change a nappy than to change everything? This week with new children there have been occassions where a member of staff is guarding the wet patch on the floor, while another member of staff fetches the cleaning equipment and a 3rd member of staff takes little charlie off to get cleaned and changed. Three staff out of 4 involved with one incident. A nappy would of caused far less trouble, but parents know best. Sopme of them are adament that little charlie is dry and will use the toilet, but that is so obviously not the case. Who said it should be a race??
AnonyMouse_64 Posted September 10, 2004 Posted September 10, 2004 Of 5 of my new children, 1 is still in nappies and 3 are 'newly' toilet trained. All the parents have told me that 'little Billie' is fine but needs reminding if engrossed in play. Inevitably I'm spending most of my time either taking them to the toilet or mopping up after accidents. I don't mind that so much - it's the poo's which are worst . However, it's making it really difficult to settle to doing activities with the other children as I'm up and down endlessly. Sometimes I think it would be better to delay the toilet training rather than trying to push it just because they're starting playgroup. Like you say Rea, at least the problems 'contained' then!
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted September 10, 2004 Posted September 10, 2004 We had a new little one today whos mum left saying ' hes now toilet trained but keep an eye as he will sneak off do a poo and play with it squashing it in his fingers' aaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggh
AnonyMouse_64 Posted September 11, 2004 Posted September 11, 2004 One of my little lovelies on Monday was playing with the farm set on a mat, stood up, pulled his trousers and pants down and just stood and piddled all over it before anyone had a chance to say anything. :wacko: His mum blamed it on the fact that when he's outside with dad, his dad can never be bothered to bring him back in the house so lets him do 'outside pee's'. Monday was a really bad day.
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted September 11, 2004 Posted September 11, 2004 I can just picture it!! Well, he was on a farm!!!!! Nice one. Sue
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