AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Traditionally at our setting we have refused to use loo roll centres and egg boxes for modelling. It was started by an ex playleader who was really paranoid about safety, loo rolls contain germs, egg boxes meay have traces of salmonella. I've kind of carried it on, without really knowing if she was right. Any advice?
AnonyMouse_2127 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Same as you rea. We use kitchen rolls instead of toilet rolls though - but perhaps they have germs as well!!!??? Some one told me to put the cardboard egg boxes into the microwave for a quick zap to 'cleanse' them but I haven't done it. Can't wait to hear what others do because they are useful for crafts aren't they? Sue J
AnonyMouse_379 Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 I use egg boxes in school... as long as I fon't have children with an egg allergy in the department. But will not use toliet roll middles, have always use kitchen roll or clingfilm etc. L
Guest Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 I have also always used kitchen roll tubes but a member of staff went on a course and was told that it was safe to put toilet roll tubes in the microwave. When we needed fifty rolls (making fireworks) we were desperate and zapped about ten toilet roll tubes in the microwave for 30 seconds on high. I will probably continue to stick to kitchen roll tubes as much as possible but I would zap toilet tubes if necessary. I'm not sure about egg boxes. I'll have to check with my colleague! Kaybee
Guest Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 This is one of those 'grey' areas!!! We use egg boxes without treating them, but we do 'zap' loo rolls in the microwave!!! Word of advice: a few seconds is enough.....they catch fire very easily (enough said... ). You can buy cardboard rolls from some good junk/craft shops, but I think it's probably an unecessary cost (especially for those rockets for bonfire night!!!). I would check with your head/manager and check, but I think 'zapping' the loo rolls should eliminate the germs??? Will keep my eyes on this topic just in case...
Guest Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 I was advised by a paediatrician at our local hospital that a quick zap in a microwave would cleanse toilet rolls and egg boxes, she said 10 seconds would be enough.
AnonyMouse_79 Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Hi Have never thought about egg boxes as being as problem! Have avoided loo rolls since being advised not to use them many, many years ago but always wondered if there was in any truth in the "story"? However, if this is really so does it not throw up the suitability of using junk from any source?
Guest Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 To zap or not to zap - that is the question Oh dear, I've been putting hundreds of childrens' lives at risk over the years!! (remove tongue from cheek) I've used loads of loo rolls, egg boxes etc without zapping them and there has never been a problem. We live in such a paranoid society especially where germs and bugs are concerned. Mind you some people seem to think that the rise of asthma is due to our over-sterile environment - who knows! I don't have an opinion on that either way. I think people should do whatever for their own peace of mind. Denise
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Susan - trust you to get straight to the heart!! What does anyone else think?- Mousebat - me too! Seems to me that you both have valid comments to make there!! What does anyone else think? I admit to being confused by the whole debate!! Sue
AnonyMouse_79 Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Didn't think I was too far adrift from Mousebat actually! I do think it would be a great shame if we stopped using junk or reclaimed materials in our settings, but I do think that you need to exercise some common sense and care. Things easily get out of comtrol and out of all proportion to the actual risk and I do think Rea had some valid points when she started this thread. I never give children washing powder boxes and always ditch anything I think may have come from a dubious source, likewise packets with food stains or bits still attached and milk bottles. I'm sure we all need to follow our settings policies and to review them as appropriate, undertaking appropriate risk assessment along the way for all activities.
Guest Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Like Susan says it's all about common sense and care. Although I've never zapped a loo roll in my life there are certain boxes and cartons I would not be comfortable giving the children, such as, washing powder boxes, but that's more of a case of not wanting children to swallow any remaining contents rather than from germs and bugs. Denise
Guest Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 mmmmm...I'm still undecided about loo rolls. What about all those people who don't have a toilet roll holder and hold the loo roll in their hand and...well...I leave the rest to you! I do agree about things going too far sometimes & the children love 'junk' modelling, I have no intention of changing my practice unless I am told to. However, piece of mind from a zap isn't an inconvenience for me really and ensures that people are aware that we take H&S issues seriously.
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 25, 2004 Author Posted August 25, 2004 Thanks for all the input. I will start 'zapping' . I do avoid certain things i.e. washing powder boxes and things that look like they might of been in the bin at some point It's a shame though that everything has to be so clean, when I think of how and where my own children were allowed, nay, encouraged to play it makes me wonder how they grew up so healthy.
Guest Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Rea, I think your own children grew up so healthy partly because they were exposed to germs and bugs and built up some immunity. I have young children and they've been exposed to all sorts!! They are never ill not even the slightest cold. They must have cast iron constitutions as they've still not had the chicken pox despite a mini epidemic at school last year. This has been an interesting discussion but it hasn't changed my views at all but I do respect the vdifferent views of others. My loo rolls will continued to go unzapped. Just a thought, what guarentee do you have that all the bugs will be killed off even after zapping? However, if it gives you peace of mind to zap then that's entirely up to you. I wouldn't find it inconvienent to zap I just think it's going over the top a little. I am well aware, and take seriously health and safety issues and I am a responsible person. If I was told by my Headteacher to zap then of course I would, but until then I will just use common sense and my pupils will be able to carry on with unzapped 'junk' modelling. Denise
Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 All this microwave zapping is a load of urban myth!!! I am a real scientist (changed course). Microwaving for seconds does not kill Salmonella spp., nor does it rid loo roll tubes of any pathogens such as Enterobacter spp. If this was an efficient means of sterilisation, I would know. It is not. Surgeons do not use instruments that are microwaved. Sterile medicinal products (e.g. injections and eye drops) need more than a microwave oven to get then "clean" and safe for intended use. Knowing what I do about health matters, I can't see why we shouldn't use loo roll tubes (is there a published study of microbacterial contamination of these?) or egg boxes (or these, for that matter?) with children (except, perhaps the latter in REAL cases of egg allergy- I mean those possibly resulting in anaphylaxis). It is not a major issue - we can satisfy everyone by using kitchen roll tubes ("beware those kitchen germs" say the scaremongers) and by using "unused" egg boxes (ask your local egg supplier to donate). The microwaving may keep some happy, but it really is a complete waste of time. You may as well pretend that you have done the microwaving, because scientific analysis probably couldn't prove otherwise. Diane.
Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 A post script: I will never let children junk model with any box or package that says "keep out of the reach of children" (or similar). Even if the pack is empty, I feel that the message remains valid. Gosh, I am mean. Diane.
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted August 30, 2004 Posted August 30, 2004 Hooray!! Someone who can actually 'set us straight' !! Thank you, Diane, I have long suspected this may be the case (the waste of time - wouldn't dream of suggesting I know the other stuff!) So, what am I going to do with all the time I used to waste????? No, you're not mean. Just very sensible - or is that an insult? Sue
Guest Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Thank you Diane for your professional views as a scientist ! No way are you mean. People should be able to speak their minds whatever their views and not be judged, especially if it 'goes' against the flow'. In this case it's good to have the views backed by fact rather than paranoid fiction. It's all down to common sense - nothing more nothing less! Denise
AnonyMouse_64 Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 I had kept clear of this discussion because I remembered from my food hygiene course that simple microwaving wasn't going to kill it, but wasn't completely confident in saying so. I guess there may be a small risk that the loo rolls or egg boxes might be contaminated but the 'bugs' need certain conditions to multiply - namely 'food', warmth and moisture. I'm not sure that a bit of glue slapped on an egg box is the ideal?? (Waits to be shot down in flames...... ) I did a search on the internet and could find nothing except masses of craft sites using egg boxes and loo rolls. Surely if it is such a risk there would be more information around? Sorry, will continue to use them (unmicrowaved Diane!! ) as I've never had any problems up to now. I do like your point about the boxes though Diane - theres a good reason for restricting the junk modelling boxes we offer.
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Hi I agree with Dianne much to some staff members huffs and puffs, we do not use any loo roll, egg boxes or cartons that are labeled not safe for children..i would rather be safe than sorry especially these days....
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 After reading Diane's response I have decided not to even bother using them. We havent done so for some years so it's not a problem. I would never accuse my children's school of being unsafe for using any of the afore mentioned things, but thats just me and I dont want to put other children at risk (be it ever so slight). You can bet your bottom dollar that if I use them now some child will end up ill! I've really enjoyed reading all the responses though, so many different thoughts, I felt like I was on a see-saw. And now I'm going to confound you all again...If the BBC is going to stop endorsing foods that are considered unhealthy i.e. breakfast cereals, and we are all encouraged to promote healthy eating, should we be using cereal boxes which are aimed at children though high in salt, sugar?? Are we bringing these products to their attention and aiding the 'pester power'? SORRY!!!!! It was just a thought I had. (I must get out more)
Guest Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 What an interesting thought about cereal boxes! you were joking about not using them weren't you? I feel the media is to blame for a lot scaremongering etc without always having the proper facts and there are some people out there who believe everything that they say. We deal with germs, bugs and other nasties 24/7 365 days of the week - that's life - you can't get away from it - people become ill because of them - but I've never heard of a child becoming serverely ill from using loo rolls, egg boxes etc - think about the chemicals we use in household products - the pollutants in the air from car fumes and what drinking coke does to your insides. Yes I know I'm going OTT now but I think this is exactly where this whole topic is going and I'm not helping by responding all the time. Eeek! I certainly need to get out more. Taking a trip to outer space tomorrow.....well the National Space centre anyway. D
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 Yes, I was joking, what else will be left if we stop using these? I wont even begin to tell you of the things that were banned during the previous leader's reign...suffice to say , if drinking from puddles was good enough for my son then with just a little bit of tweeking I can use most things!!!!
Recommended Posts