Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hi, I've been a lurking member for a while and I've always found the information and ideas on this site really useful, so thanks. My question is about age related expectations. There has been a move recently for measuring children against age related expectations and I've had meltdowns on several occasions, because I've been told that an average F2 child on entry should be working at a level 1b. I've been informed that an average score of 6 on the profile is equivalent to a level 1b, which thank goodness through the Assessing Pupil Progress materials has been disproved. However, does anyone know what the age related expectation for a child entering/leaving the Foundation stage should be? (Or even age related expecations for an average child on entry/exit of Year 1?) I've been looking for evidence to support my case but have had difficulty finding it. I'd appreciate any help in this area. Thank you Sairs
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 mmmm realy sorry not got a clue but some1 must understand? im lost would like to know what level my son should be at end of yrear 6? is there a chart or something out there for end of each yr? x
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hello Sairs, A warm welcome to the forum, I'm preschool background so unable to answer your query, I did however find a previous conversation on the forum with some links that may send you in the right direction for some answers. HERE Peggy
AnonyMouse_1326 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Well done peggy we can always rely on you for some good information
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Well done peggy we can always rely on you for some good information Thanks wellerkaren, I was just guessing does the link help Sairs query? all a bit beyond me p.s. every time I try and help with members queries I learn about somethin new myself, see SATS post, first time I'd heard of Single Level tests. The forum is a wealth of undiscovered knowledge, don't you think? Peggy
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 I thought I'd read in the new EYFS profile handbook that no comparisons ought to be made to National Curriculum levels, am I wrong?
AnonyMouse_7317 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hi Not a clue with answer to the question but just wanted to say Hi and welcome
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hi, I've been a lurking member for a while and I've always found the information and ideas on this site really useful, so thanks. My question is about age related expectations. There has been a move recently for measuring children against age related expectations and I've had meltdowns on several occasions, because I've been told that an average F2 child on entry should be working at a level 1b. I've been informed that an average score of 6 on the profile is equivalent to a level 1b, which thank goodness through the Assessing Pupil Progress materials has been disproved. However, does anyone know what the age related expectation for a child entering/leaving the Foundation stage should be? (Or even age related expecations for an average child on entry/exit of Year 1?) I've been looking for evidence to support my case but have had difficulty finding it. I'd appreciate any help in this area. Thank you Sairs My understanding is that an average child entering Reception under the EYFS should have 3+ points ticked for each part of the EYFS.This allows progression to having 6+ points ticked for each part by the end of the EYFS for an average child. This will mean that the child will be able to access Level 1 of the NC in Y1 However if your asking from the the entry in to Nursery use the age related criteria in the new EYFS differentiate either side iwhere necessary The only sure way is to know your children and have agood baseline to work from Hope this helps
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hi and welcome. Kermit is right, there is should be no relation made between EYFSP scores and NC levels. An 'average' child at the end of KS1 (Y2) should be working at 2b, and we expect 'average' children at the end of Y1 to be working at a level of 1b/1a. Therefore you wouldn't expect a child to enter F2 at 1b so you are right this certainly doesn't make an equivelant to 6 points. I don't know about age expected levels for entry to F1 or F2 but I would think now the stepping stones have been replaced by age ranges that you would expect children to be working in the age band they are in. Andrea08 - average expectation for end of Y6 in 4b. Children are expected to make progress of 1 1/2 sublevels per year through KS2 (e.g. 2a/3c and end of Y3, 3b at end of Y4, 3a/4c end of y5). Sorry to keep using the word 'average'.
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hi I know you can't predict levels at KS1 from the EYFS profile scores but my headteacher will not accept this. I just wondered if there was any evidence I could use to back up my argument. Or an explanation of why you can't relate the two. I try to explain it but obviously not well enough as she's still determined that we should be using the profile scores to predict attainment in KS1!!
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 I am going to hear Jan Dubiel speak about teachers and school managers using FSP data effectively at the TES exhibition so will feed back any gems. Otherwise have a look at below: http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/resources/k...target-setting/ Also: http://www.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/primary/p...pic_0028307.pdf
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 It's very clearly stated in the new EYFSP handbook that no correlation to NC scores or levels should be made - however - if a child gets a "good" outcome in EYFSP, ie 78 points plus you can reasonably expect the child with a further 2 years of good quality teaching to continue to achieve well, ie get a level 2+ - but how well it is not possible to predict. Ofsted last pronounced that a national expectation for entry to F1 was yellow SS and to F2 blue/green - in new money I'm still waiting for them to pronounce again, unless they have and I've missed it! x
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Would RAISEonline help with your query re: entry/exit to key stage 1 expectations? find it HERE (ALTHOUGH SITE IS CURRENTLY DOWN DUE TO TECHNICAL PROBLEMS ) Peggy
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Just to put a spanner in the works. Look what the DCSF have been up to... http://www.parliament.uk/deposits/deposite...EP2008-1634.doc
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 This has been knocking about for a while - It still really says that if they do well at FSP they'll continue, in the main, to do well at KS1 - there's no "that will give them a level 3 if they get above 80 points or the like"! Get 78+ and you seem to get anything between a level w and a level 3. Cx
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Just to put a spanner in the works. Look what the DCSF have been up to... http://www.parliament.uk/deposits/deposite...EP2008-1634.doc Thanks for that Hammered, interesting 'scan' read, but could you tell me in basic language what it actually means? Is it saying that children who score on average 6 points at FSP will achieve expected standards at end of Key stage 1? but some data shows that lower scoring in FSP still shows attainment at end KS1? Children with 0 point SEN for example, have skewered the data, so this should be considered when interpretating it? Confused.com How do you think these findings may impact on practice / expectations, if at all? Peggy
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Our LA have spoken about relationships for different points. From memory and I think the theme is similar in this report, it is that there is a feeling that some points ('super scale points?') are particuarly good indicators of future success. In particularly the PSED and speaking and listening ones are better indicators of future success in English than reading and writing ones. I guess these are common arguments in EY and it does seem obvious that children who score very highly in FSP will do better at KS1. This is a different matter to setting targets from them though - but it can point towards the benefits of focussing on these skills in EY.
Guest Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 I would personally like more credence of PSED and speaking & listening compared to Reading, Writing and maths in the early years. I think there is a move more to this way of thinking, especially since the report from Unicef ( I think) on our childrens 'well being' compared to other European countries, where we scored very low. My foster son aged 12 yrs 'mumbles' as he speaks, he doesn't compile clear sentences, partly due to confidence but also because he hasn't learnt good speaking and listening skills, this really impacts on his CLL abilities. He doesn't need extra spellings to learn or writing excercises, he needs a boost in his social / emotional area of development with plenty of speaking and listening opportunities. Peggy
Guest Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 I'd like to say thanks to everyone who replied I really appreciate it. The articles and links you included were also very interesting to read. At least I've got some evidence to argue my case when it arrives next. 'Cause there's nothing more infuriating when your profile scores are showing the majority of children achieving a scale point six average (more or less) which I feel is age appropriate for end of FS2 and then having to fill in another form which states that the age related score for end of reception is a level 1c/1b and then having to admit that the majority of the class on that form are below age related expectations! Thank you again for the very warm welcome and your help. Sairs
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