Baseline Scores- 1-3 Or 4?

[Guest]

If a child scores 1 and 2 in numbers for labels and counting, can they score point 4 without point 3, ie; says number names in order but cannot count up to 6 objects reliably? Similarly in calculating, if they cannot achieve point 3, finding 1 more or 1 less, can they achieve point 4, relates addition to combining 2 groups ?

 

In the new EYFS handbook on p6 it says, for points 4-8 'for each scale point achieved, 1 is added to the base score or 3', this implies they need to get 1-3 before moving onto 4 onwards.

 

Although i keep all the assessments together and over the course of the year it won't matter when they achieve each point, I wonder whether to score 2 for 1 and 2, or 3 for 1, 2 and 4 so that I can target set for the year.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Cairen

[Guest]

Yes- they can achieve the points in any order. So a child could have 1, 2, 4.

 

Have just read the paragraph you quoted on p6- it is very confusing! Basically I think it means that in theory they should get the 1st 3 before 4-8, but it doesn't happen that way all the time!

[Guest]

Excellent, thanks so much. The exemplification is very confusing. Last year we totalled points 1 2 and 4 in both numeracy and other areas, but this year the guidance seemed to suggest differently. You would think they would be more explicit. Anyone else unclear?

 

Thanks for your reply x

[AnonyMouse_11485]

I'd seen the same thing and was surprised - I thought children could achieve all 8 points in any order, although broadly the first 3 before 4-8, but the new profile booklet does seem to say that they can only get point 4 after they've got 1-3. On page 5 it says, ' Attainment of any early learning goals (scale points 4-8) must include an assessment of scale points 1-3 as these are developmental steps leading to the attainment of scale points 4-8.' So it does say there that you can't give point 4 without 1-3.

 

BUT in the detail about NLC points 3 and 4 it says that they need to say number names in order to at least 10, but this doesn't require counting showing 1:1 correspondence. So this point seems to only apply to children who can count 6 objects 1:1, but not 10, but can count to 10. Weird and confusing.

[Guest]

emmajess, thanks for the reply, what will you do for your baseline ?

 

I can see that either way is right. If i score lower, the children will appear to make better progress, but I don't want to mark them down unfairly. I want to be fair to both them and myself x

[AnonyMouse_11485]

Let me know if this is totally outrageous, but I'm mainly assessing points 1-3 and if they go way beyond this will start giving them elg points, but if they're kind of hovering, like the point 3/4 NLC thing, I'd make a note of it and just give them points 1 and 2 and work on securing point 3 for an update at Autumn 1 and include point 4 then. What do you think?

[Guest]

Hi emmajess

 

We assess pse, cll and numeracy in the first 4 weeks or so, and assess against the first 3/4 points. We have a pretty good intake so they often score 4 in some pse areas and also number. Mainly our chidlren score 3ish in the other areas.

 

This year we are trying to do alot more observations but we still rely on adult led activities and one to one assessments in some areas. Think many reception teachers find the same x

[AnonyMouse_13401]

Hi

 

On a course today and they said need 1-3 now before 4-8. This is a change to previous thought. There could be however some exceptions to this if SEN children!

[Guest]

Ah ha- enlightening, what county are you? x

[Guest]

Hi

 

On a course today and they said need 1-3 now before 4-8. This is a change to previous thought. There could be however some exceptions to this if SEN children!

 

 

How ridiculous! Majority of children do achieve them in that order but there are some (prime explain is numbers as labels for counting) that the ELG's could realistically be achieved without having the first 3 scale points!

[AnonyMouse_1027]

does say in the new handbook 1-3 in order then 4-8 in any order

[Guest]

It doesn't say it in those terms, it says when scoring 4-8, add it to the base score of 3, implying that you need to score 3 first. This doesn't make sense in some areas of learning. I'm really confused x

[Guest]

does say in the new handbook 1-3 in order then 4-8 in any order

 

Which bit are you reading? I keep reading the bits of page 5 and 6 but every time I read it it seems more confusing!

[Guest]

Hello this is my first post, after reading this forum for a while. I'm afraid I still can't answer the question though! Still not sure what we are doing tomorrow with the points, perhaps we could ask our early years advisor? Cairen and I work together in same school, in reception classes, and we have been talking about this today.

[Guest]

I have e-mailed my LEA advisory. She is usually brilliant at getting back asap and with the lastest knowledge. Will let you know what she says!

[Guest]

Thats great, thanks! Look forward to hearing what she says.

[Guest]

Thanks

[Guest]

Well- here is her repsonse- not sure it makes anymore sense to me!

 

"Yes it has been said that if children achieve scale point 4 then they must have achieved 1-3, but I agree that there may be instances where this doesn't happen. While you are using FSP too inform learning and teaching through the year you may use it as an AfL tool, but the summative according at the end of FSP for most children will show that they have achieved= 1-3 if they are working within the ELGs. It is something I will pick up again at network meetings and at national level. Sorry, I know that is still not very clear."

 

I kind of take it to mean that by the end of the year children will have achieved 1-3 as well as any ELG's. But throughout the year (or particularly in entry) they may not have 1-3 first.

 

How does everyone else read it?

[Guest]

Thanks Bethie, that reads to me that although they would normally achieve 1-3 first, there are exceptions, probably the numeracy points I first mentioned.

 

Think many LA advisors will be asked the same questions over the next month or so.

[AnonyMouse_13401]

Ah ha- enlightening, what county are you? x

Hi

 

I'm from Manchester LEA and really on the ball when it comes to new initiatives! When i say on the ball i mean they are not me! Ha I'm new and they are supportive!

[Guest]

You give points 1 - 3. Once your child has reached 3, they can be assessed at 4 - 9. For example you may have a child who can consistently achieve 1-3, also point 5and point 7 (but not 4, 6 or 8). This means that that child is point 3 + 2 (i.e points 5 and 7) = point 5. This child is a 5.

 

Though how we are supposed to assess at this stage of the year to find out what a child can do independently and consistently I don't know. I dont thnk the EYFS profile is meant to be used this way. It is for the end of the Foundation stage but scholls are insisting on children being POINTED!! (as it were) at the beginning so that they can then say how great they are at teaching later on!!

[Guest]

I was on on course last week where our early years team were covering our base line assessment ( we use durham's flying start 2) and FSP. our advice was that 1-3 were developmental and therefore should be gained in order however 4-8 can be gained in any order as already mentioned and 9 can only be gained on completion of previous 8. it was implied but not stated that 1-3 are more likely to be gained in nursery. Flying start 2 (our authorities assessment) works across both nursery and reception and includes the achievemnt of of ELG as they are achieved. Also big focus on eveidence being mainly (80%) from child initiated activities. I'm new to reception so may not be 100% accurate on interpretation but that seemed to be the message to us. first post so may not even get this inright place. Sorry if not in proper format!