Guest Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 We are being ofsted next month and we've had a prelimany visit. One of the things mentioned was that the nursery looked like a pre-school. I have no idea what it meant. Any suggestions? I share my premises with a pre-school and there is continual problems with resourcing and tidying up. and we have to put everything away befoe they take over. Constant issues of losing things, provison, interst tables being destroyed and now i just put basic things out.I have told school that i cannot put up displays etc with the regualrity i could bec of the premises being rented out everyafternoon. I cannot provide tthe continuity that msot nurseries have bec everything has to be put away (like pre-schools in the chusch hall) Any adice as to what the inspectors might have meant. (I thought it was very insulting to pre-schools as i thought we provide the same service) but apparently not HELP- And pre-schools please don't get angry. This was the inspector's opinion, not mine.
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 cor blimy i think i would have given inspector black eye!!!!!! I presume thats what they meant basic things out/no displays etc...... We are in church hall and i just made sure that when i was inspected displays etc were up even if it meant going in early to put it all up/out and staying late tidying it all away again.....sorry cant add much more...
Guest Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 hi hali that's waht i intend to do. GO over in the weekend to put up things but the ofsted is over a month away and at this rate i'll have a breakdown if i have to use my weekends and evenings to sort out the nursery. Beleive me i would have thumped the lady too!
Guest Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 oh I forgot- They came into the nursery at noon. When we finished our session and the pre-school was about to take over THere is a 1/2 hour gap which is used to clean up the place.. So obviously we had tidied up and left the building!!!
AnonyMouse_79 Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 hi Leo, it is possible I suppose that the inspector does or did not appreciate the conditions that you work under and I would suggest that you make quite sure that she has no doubt when you have your inspection. Meanwhile, I expect that you have hit the nail on the head and that she expected to see something quite different re displays etc. It is such a shame that you have this difficulty and I suspect quite unusual to be part of the school and yet to be in shared premises. Schools of course do occasionally have other users on site, we had parent groups come in to use our spaces but this did not mean that we werent able to use them properly too! I think you need to have a serious chat with your head to unravel this, if at all possible and as your own D Day is fast approaching you will heve brought to his (or her) attention another reason for your dissatisfaction and impending resignation. I have no doubt that this situation has compounded the working relationship problems that have got to you recently! Take care.
AnonyMouse_1195 Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 Leo find some way of turning this on it's head. OFSTED should be pleased to see how your space is used to support the community and community links, so emphasis this. Is there some way you could do some sort of joint display or something on the theme of sharing or working together to which both you and the preschool contribute? If you find it hard to leave displays out can you hand something or hqve some sort of screen whihc goes up and down?
Guest Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 Thanks for all your replies- the world always seems better after the 3rd glass (HIC) but anyway since i have been very articulate about issues- i will make sure that as a parting shot the ispectors too know what i have had to put up with for the last 2 1/2 yrs. Shame bec i love working with kids Cheers Leo
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 Good to know that Ofsted inspectors around the country have the same stupid views. Continuity! I thought that if the setting was there for children who are 'pre-school' age, then the setting was a pre-school! Playgroup, pre-school, nursery? What really is the difference?? Oh to be an Ofsted inspector and be able to talk a different language to the rest of human kind Good luck Leo
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Jacquie There is a limit to the number of things that you can put away at the end of each session. I work with one TA and my 5 hrs of GTA has been left by the side since the GTA resigned. She used to sort out displays and do my laminating and phtocopying etc. My TA is good bu not organised- haas to be told everything she has to do inc when to tidy up. Not much intiative in the right things and too in other unnecc things!!! So at 11.30 we have send chidlre home- sort out the lunch timeres and tidy and put away the things in the room. Not worth the trouble now.
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Leo - I think you should ask the inspector to clarify further what she meant by 'continuity' and ask her for suggestions on how to put right the situation if at all possible. I think it's very unfair to critisize Ofsted as having 'stupid views' as one poster put it especially when they are not around this forum (as far I know) to defend themselves. They are only doing their job and are guided by the rules. After all they want to make sure that children up and down the country are getting a decent standard of pre-school education.
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Are you one in disguise Mousebat????????
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 I have always been under the impression that Ofsted treated pre-schools, state nurseries, private nurseries in exactly the same way when inspecting regardless of whether they are in village/church halls, converted houses, purpose-built buildings, school grounds, etc. I have sometimes felt that in some ways this is unfair when it comes to resources, displays, facilities, computers, outdoor play areas, etc. It sounds like Leo's inspector was possibly giving a personal opinion rather than a professional one.
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Just to lighten the atmosphere around here.............. An OFSTED inspector was puzzled as to why one of the five-year-olds in a class he was in kept asking his if he was Jesus. When he questioned the child, it said, ' well, Miss saw you coming and said "Oh Jesus, here he comes!"' The head of one school turned in SATs results which saw his school as the worst in the area, and amongst the bottom 50 in the country. Yes - he too was made an OFSTED inspector, specializing in telling other headteachers how to run their schools. Into the ground, presumably. How many OFSTED inspectors does it take to change a light-bulb? Three. One to write a report criticizing the teaching staff for not foreseeing the bulb's demise, one to claim for twenty times the bulb's actual cost on their expenses, and one to bribe a Year 3 kid to change it for them. NB: I take no creavtive responsibility for these humourous quotes. Just the responsibility for posting them!
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 hey, this is just how inconsistant ofsted are, I worked in two setting at the same time, both ran almost the same, very little difference, i was at both inspections with two differnt inspectors, one had a 1-2 year reinspection the other 3-4 yrs, the points raised in both key issues were very differnt, as that is what they saw on the day and how the interpreted what they saw. (I was a supply member of staff for both settings at the time, I now manage the one which had the 1-2 yr!) i Agree it may be a good ides to get cooperation from the pre-school, I would not be happy if anything i displayed was destroyed by other groups, after all aren't they doing the same sort of job just under a different label. i can only assume the inspector is expecting perfect displays as it is a school base. Doesnt this suggest differnt standard expected from all us others doing the same job in halls etc? Perhaps we are the lucky ones after all!!
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 I cannot retract my comments re:stupid inspectors because I've met some. One inspector, on been told we were having difficulty buying play sand during the winter suggested we use builders sand, another wrote in our report that 'the children do not use textured malleable materials', when she had been shown evidence to the contary. The last two reports have stated that the group opened in 1995, when it was in fact 1963, and this information has been passed to them on numerous occassions. When I wrote to complain about the report and request a new inspection the reply more or less said 'you got a good report so dont rock the boat over details'. My ex deputy applied for and was offered a job with them, she was amazed that they were more concerned with her computer skills than her knowledge of the early years. As for making sure that children get a decent education, I would much rather put my faith in my staff and the parents than an organisation who send reports late, after they have been written by somebody who has never even seen our setting and with details wrong or totally missing.
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Must agree rea at least you are not the only ones, we have had problems with their paper work for ever, we had an inspection Dec.(standards), gave all paperwork to inspector staffing commitee etc, and then recieved a telephone call in march asking to check the staff details, Hey guess what, they didnt have 4 members of staff listed and they worked here BEFORE ofsed took over and were on Social Services paperwork! Two had to redo forms etc, one we still have not been approved to have on staff, she has sent her CRB to them twice and still they claim not to have seen it! we always send it registered post and she has had it back the same way. We are currently battling for the 3rd time with this - 2 years later... still no joy. As we have seen her clearance and good references we still employ her. this is just the tip of the iceberg for us, our 2nd ofsted, education in May ( yes they forgot it in dec) and now they say we have 41 on roll, 31 funded 3 yr olds and 94 funded 4 year olds(we had 8)....... help. lovely maths there and they have the cheek to say that that we do not do adding or subtracting or writing letters with them... they are only 3 after all. perhaps the 94- 4 year olds could help if I could only find them!!! no matter how often we tell them they never seem to get it right, just waiting to see the next instalment of us vs ofsted. Inge
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Ok so you have an axe to grind with a few inspectors. Not all of them are like that. Your statement was just too sweeping and too personal.
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 why are you taking it so personally mmousebat? I'm intrigued
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 I'm not taking it personally. I just don't think it's right to criticize a whole organisation on just a few bad apples. Leo - I'll let you in to a little secret as long as you don't tell any one else ..... message truncated ... PANIC IOT trap core dump. gurgle gurgle.
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 whoops ....cat walked over the keyboard - computer error. Basically I'm not telling......
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Crikey! What is wrong with a nursery looking like a pre-school? OK, I know they turned up after you had done the changeover. But so what? If the room was set out for pre-school, what stops 0-3 benefitting? Nothing! As everyone else has already said - this just makes OFSTED look silly. If the government wants "seamless" child care and education, there has got to be cross-over at some point. Do children like it as a pre-school and as a nursery? Presumably they do. Do parents complain? Presumably they do not. What do OFSTED say to childminders who cover the whole early years age range? "Put an extension on your house so that you can separate BT3 from foundation stage". I think not! I work at a rural pre-school. It is a relatively small village, but the setting attracts families from a 5-mile+ catchment circle. Why? Local pressure! Totally inclusive! So much so, that we now take children from 24 months. Nappies? Yes. Special needs? Yes. Totally inclusive? Maybe. Perhaps having gone down this route, the setting is failing the able children. We have a staff:child ratio of 1:5. Twelve staff in total, but only two are qualified (not me!). I find that I am spending more and more time on care, and less on education. Unfortunately, the less committed staff prefer to avoid nappy-changing, and other less savoury "activities" with the children. Instead, they play: with no clear understanding og ELGs (our planning is abyssmal, anyway). What I want (what I really want - burst into song) is ...... key worker groups. Then I can come out of the toilets every so often, and have lots of fun! Please, OFSTED come and look at us! I can justify lots of things, but certainly not staff deployment. Diane.
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 maybe she wanted to see super displays- i put up things that the chidlren hae made themslees and with minimum fuss and decoration bec i have no time to do it. It's usually 5-10 minutes snatched during the morning. I am at a loss to see how to intepret this comment.
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Your right mousebat, the term 'stupid' was inappropriatte. The organization however, through what I believe to be most peoples experience is.. unprofessional, mis-managed at all levels and with the communication skills of a plant!! I believe Ofsted has a special office called THE BLACK HOLE ROOM where I should think 75% of all correspondence is lost. I first registered 3 yrs ago, (with Social Services, just as Ofsted took over) all info passed to them, I still do not have my marriage or birth certificate. Year 2 - details from Ofsted stated that my newly appointed assistant was in fact the registered person!! How's that for a side ways promotion?? I have posted comments regarding Ofsted before, They are the bain of my life. I was given an unsatisfactory on care and education in Oct 03. To be re-inspected in 6 months (April 04) with an interim inspection in January 04. Guess what after 15, yes 15 phone calls from me begging for a re-inspection, The care standards inspector arrived in June 04 (Satisfactory across the board). The education inspector in Oct was very impressed with a hand out I had, it was the teaching methods for the Numeracy and Literacy strategies- Key stage 1-2, which I had written for students I used to teach at college ( I don't use it with preschoolers, just happened to have it amongst my paperwork) This is obviously how high her expectations were for the F. Stage curriculum, and therefore failed me. As for the Education re-inspection, I think the Inspectors for my area must have all got lost in the proverbial BLACK HOLE ROOM! By the way, one question, during my 'unsuccessful' Inspection in Oct 03, The care standards Inspector asked 4 of my parents the same question; What are the seven principles of care? she admonished me, quite sternly because they didn't know, and I was told that all parents should be informed of these. I still don't know the answer- Do any of you??? mind you I even asked a person who is contracted by Ofsted to train the Inspectors and she didn't know either, she couldn't understand why the question was asked. Peggy
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Oh dear i can see why people are so down on inspectors when had a bad experience and i do not understand at all what Leo's inspector was going on about, but as Mousebat says they are not all like that, ours was wonderful, lovely, helpful and believe it or not nice to have around for two days. Naughty cat Mousebat!!!!!!! :wacko:
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 oh Peggy - thank goodness I didn't have the Inspector you had - and nope haven't got a clue what the 7 principles are either!!!!!!! The trouble with Inspections is that the waiting is the worst bit - when they arrive it's a sort of relief to get it over with(or you're just too tired & worn out by that time to really care!) janice
Guest Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 I think we have to accept that there are good and bad inspectors. Many of us have experienced both-I know I have! But, and I am not trying to make excuses here, the transfer from social services to OFSTED was badly managed. It was undertaken in too short a time scale, the decision was made to off load all of the previous education inspectors and to employ all new, many of whom had no experience of the education aspect of inspecting. They were literally training on the job. So in many ways it is not the fault of the actual inspectors but the system itself. And that can be laid firmly at the government's door for once again rushing things through without really thinking them through! And I firmly believe that too much emphasis is put on education and not enough on care. Linda
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