AnonyMouse_13453 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thank you for all your support I really appreciate it!!! I am going to see acting head on Monday and my union rep at school as she also had a word with me about someother issues and made me feel as if all my support staff had been to complain about me, spopken to the other teacher i work with and made me feel as if I was a complete failure as a teacher. She said 'if you don't get your own way you don't like it' I have never been so outraged!!!! I could hardly talk at this point as I was so upset!! This is getting worse! pinkprincess1982, you must keep us posted on this, it sounds as though she/he has some axe to grind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Is it usual not to have any policies in a school? Just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Unfortunately we have no policies - I am the Reception teacher my line manager is the KS1 coordinator and this is the acting head who has made these comments to me - her advice was a calm voice and a reassuring pat as I asked her what I should have done!! I took so long writing my response I missed your previous details. The school must have policies, if the rationalle for 'not on laps' is a child protection one, then it should state this in the child protection policy, does the school have a designated child protection officer?, have a chat with her to see what the schools policy is on this. There should also be a 'transition / settling in policy'. Possibly the fact you have an acting head, who is trying to make her mark, so to speak, could explain her behaviour towards you. A possible explanation, but not an excuse! If this person was previously KS1 coordinator (only) and is now acting head maybe she feels 'vulnerable' having to prove herself in this new role, a role that is a step or more further away from her work colleagues compared to coordinator role. I can completely understand the anger and frustration you are feeling. I am a foster carer and just last week attended training on the subject of allegations, we are in a no win situation. We can't do right for wrong, we are meant to provide a caring, nurturing 'family home' for our foster children, ie: treat them like one of our own, BUT we are somehow meant to do this at 'arms length' for fear of allegations. ( or more to work within the safeguarding policies of our employers). I have felt despair, frustration, and anger at the way our integrity, professionalism and basic human kindness is always under 'the microscope'. Because these children are not our own we have to double think any action or behaviour we have towards them as we have to be able to 'rationalise' everything we do. Caring, disciplining, comforting etc can never be 'natural' because there will always be some other persons perception of our intent. Just empathising with the emotions you are feeling right now. At the end of the day we balance, as best we can, the requirements from our employers and the everyday needs of our foster children. I think it's good that you have the weekend to 'calm down' (I'd certainly need a bit of time if this was said to me), then it's up to you whether you feel there would be any benefit in discussing this further with the child protection officer, and/or the deputy head. Whatever you decide, if I was you I would still continue to comfort a child, as you have always done. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_10713 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Maybe next time you have a very upset child you should send them to the HT office!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 poor child! Good threat though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_79 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Oh dear, Pinkprincess, this sounds like it is getting out of control. Depending on your school rep you may need to go to regional rep but do not go to any meeting without the friend you are entitled to take whether that be a union rep or a colleague. Your school must have a child protection/ safeguarding policy and it may very well be documented in there that you should not have close contact with a child due to the need to protect yourself from allegations of abuse. However, this should always be viewed alongside the specifics of the situation and your assessment of the risk. It is a sorry world that we can not comfort a child in distress in an appropriate way but you may need to be more discrete! I would think that your acting head has previously had a bad experience with respect to this issue but she should not be undermining your confidence in this way. Make a note, tonight, of what was said by both of you and detail any future conversations. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 This has reminded me........ Some time last year, when my lovely grandaughter would have been six - she fell over in the playground and managed to land on her face (hands in pockets I think). When I saw her poor little face - I said "oh darling that must have really hurt, did you cry"? Obviously she had and I said "who helped you" - she said Mr xxxx - (the only male teacher in the school) - I said "oh and did he give you a lovely cuddle" - and thank goodness, he had. I would have been terribly disappointed if he hadn't. Sunnyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thank you for all your support I really appreciate it!!! I am going to see acting head on Monday and my union rep at school as she also had a word with me about someother issues and made me feel as if all my support staff had been to complain about me, spopken to the other teacher i work with and made me feel as if I was a complete failure as a teacher. She said 'if you don't get your own way you don't like it' I have never been so outraged!!!! I could hardly talk at this point as I was so upset!! Good you've decided to speak to acting head and union rep. It does appear that there is more than one issue here and it is so easy for these situations to 'blow up' out of all proportion if individual issues are not discussed seperately. It all becomes one big issue. I am a bit concerned that she has made 'quite a few' different comments to you about your work performance, these all seem quite informal which leaves you really unable to know whether they are her 'personal' opinions or whether she is acting in a 'management' role towards you. If she has any real 'factual' complaints about your abilities then she should act according to the schools staff management procedures, if not then just mentioning these type of things by 'having a word' just leaves you not really knowing where you stand. Basically she needs to 'manage' her staff better, giving guidance and support, or dealing with complaints in the appropriate manner. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi pinkprincess 1982 - welcome to the forum. You've certainly started a hot debate with your first post! I hope all the support helps. I recently spoke to the Head at our school*, at the parents request, about a minded child. Mum & Dad are divorcing, it's messy and their daughter is picking up on the unhappy atmosphere at home and told Mum that sometimes, in school, she would just like a cuddle. The Head was great! Said all staff are there, ready & waiting to provide hugs and cuddles as required! She commented that it's one of the perks of the job and often the highlight of her day. Mum bumped into her child's teacher a few days ago & she, too, said the same thing! This school has been graded Outstanding in their last 2 Ofsted inspections and is commended for their caring ethos. Nona *Just noticed that you've posted this in Dudley EYCDP too - this is a Dudley school, too! Obviously with a VERY different approach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The day I can't put a child on my knee and give them a little hug( if they want one) to comfort them is the day I give up being a teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 just wanted to add my support pinkprincess1982, I can't imagine going a whole day without giving at least one child a cuddle. jacki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hi pinkprincess1982. Welcome to the Forum - I'm sorry your first post is about something so sad and so serious. As Peggy said, this seems to be about a much wider issue than how you dealt with this child, and I'm glad you're getting the support you need. I don't work in school so I don't really know how these things would normally proceed, but I agree with the others who say that there must be written policies. If there is a policy in your school that children should be kept at arms length then you obviously are not aware of it, and so I don't see how you can be hauled over the coals for not following a procedure/policy you haven't been made aware of. I feel so sad thinking about this - of a child who desperately needed a cuddle and who, in the care of someone else in your school, might not have got one. I do wonder at the messages we send young children when we treat them like this (and I'm afraid that far from being an urban myth, people are being advised to put a cushion on their lap so as not to come into contact with children, or not to 'handle the children too much'). Imagine how a child must feel when their feelings are acknowledged but not responded to? "Yes, I can see you're crying and upset but all I am prepared to do is pat you on the head and send you away." You can almost see the self-esteem plummet before your eyes. I really hope you can get this sorted, and can be part of a process of implementing a more equitable policy for comforting upset children. Frankly they deserve better. And by the sounds of what you've said about what is going on at school, so do you! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Thinking back a few months to the beginning of the year I had a child that was coming in upset every morning and he would transfer from cuddling mum or dad to me. As many of you have said this is what parents want to see. The mum actually apologised to me saying "sorry my son keeps needing a cuddle". Firstly I was surprised by this apology then I said to her not to worry it was part of my job, she was touched by that. I think it is further evidence that this no cuddles rule is from the 'removed' powers that be rather than the parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I got so angry reading this thread last night I had to stop reading. I know that a local primary school with an FSU has a "no cuddle" policy. Their argument is that it is inappropriate for older children but I do believe that as the FSU is separate it would not be inappropriate for that part of the school. One of our pre-school children transferred to the nursery class there and a few weeks later mum told me that her child had said he preferred our setting "because the ladies give you a hug". He was a very demonstrative child and often hugged us goodbye. When he moved to the nursery class he really struggled and he was a very confident and outgoing little boy who wasn't upset at all. I am sorry you have been treated in this way and I can only say that I don't believe you have acted inappropriately or unprofessionally at all. I hope for the sake of the child and future children you can get this sorted out, and regain your confidence in your abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Cant offer any help regarding school policies just wanted to say that the day I cant comfort a child who wants comforting is the day I stop doing this job... Ditto. While I applaud that society is far more aware of insidiousness of child abuse and hopefully less tolerant, it does seem that we are reaching a point where in an effort to protect children we are victimising them in other areas. Having been abused as a child I am very wary of how children can become victims. Because of this, I would never force my own child to give someone a hug (for example). That said, I would be very upset as a mother if I knew my child had been rejected when seeking comfort from an adult who cares for her. AND would it be unprofessional to give a work colleague a hug if she has just had some sad news? Would a nurse be told she were un professional if she hugged a babe? Where is the line to be drawn? I would put this matter on the table and seek clarification beyond that of your supervisor. I think you did the humane thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2268 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Definitely agree children should be able to have cuddles. I do know that some schools do have a 'no laps' policy...or did in the 'old days'...but I believe you did the right thing. When they are upset and come to you, reach up for you and climb onto your lap this is what they want and need and it would go against everything the EYFS is about - meeting the individual needs of every child...how sad to have to push them away and give them a pat!! Ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hi - I teach in Reception and cant imagine not being able to give a child a hug if they needed one. I see it as part of my job to make all the children feel safe and secure and if when they come in to school they are upset at leaving Mum/Dad they often need a cuddle or need to sit on an adults lap. Surely our main priority with the child in our care is to ensure they feel they are in a safe and happy environment that enables them to develop as learners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaryEMac Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Hello and welcome prinkprincess. Just wanted to offer my support. I work in a playgroup and I don't think a day goes by without a child giving me a cuddle or hug. It's never prolonged, just a little comfort. Years ago one little girl at playgroup would give me a hug because she liked the smell of my perfume and said that I smelt better than her mum who smelt of horses. When she was about 10 years old, I went into the primary school as relief midday supervisor and the first thing she did was to give me a hug. She said 'you still smell lovely' Luckily her mum didn't hols a grudge. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Would just like to say a big thank you to all your replies - as you an imagine I have now calmed down but I am still angry at how I have been treated - it was our acting head who has been bought in from another authority to act as head until our new head starts after easter holidays - when she asked if she could have a word with me she impled it was just a general chat about reception and then all these issues came out! have spoken to a few of my KS2 colleagues and they are outraged they say it is an assassination of my character!!! Our school has an out of date FS policy and we do not have many policies at all - the head who left was child protection officer so I assume acting head has taken on that role - this is the person who has criticised me!!as you can imagine I don't feel particularly enthusiastic having any conversation with her!!! All of this happened on thursday and going to work friday was awful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Could you make a start writing a new policy, using the FS documents you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 it seems to be a school thing keeping the children at arms length I dont know how that is supose to comfort a young child?? Sorry but it isn't. I have always worked in schools that were very comfortable with supporting the development of young children and able to use appropriate physical contact to comfort distressed individuals. It's not just the PVI sector who have the monopoly on effective PSED support! Very wise advice from Peggy and I would absolutely talk to your union rep. Hopefully the new head will be more effective. And it's only 4 weeks to easter hols! CX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 If you look in the SEAD document you will find a whole section on the neccessity of touch and cuddles for young children. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_64 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Sorry but it isn't. I have always worked in schools that were very comfortable with supporting the development of young children and able to use appropriate physical contact to comfort distressed individuals.It's not just the PVI sector who have the monopoly on effective PSED support! Absolutely Catma, and I'm sure there have been past conversations about this very issue happening with people in Nursery's and Playgroups too. It seems to be a policy that is adapted by individuals with a personal viewpoint, rather than laid down as policy by education authorities etc. and I think it is one that should be challenged. We all recognise the importance of the care and welfare of children alongside education. There is a world of difference between inappropriate touching and comforting a distressed child! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Just want to add my support I'm in reception and there's never a day I don't give someone a cuddle because they're hurt, upset or just want a cuddle! Hope al works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 It's not just the PVI sector who have the monopoly on effective PSED support! Quite so - the first time I was aware that practitioners were being told they must have a cushion on their laps if a child wanted to sit and have a cuddle was from a lady working in a SureStart children's centre! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Hi, I was just searching for something and ended up reading this thread. I wrote an article a while back on the issue of comforting children, and found it really hard to get a definitive answer from the DCSF or anyone else. However, I did come across this and you might find p.14 and 15 of this guidance helpful. http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/12187/ACFD89B.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Sorry, I should have said see point 64, not the bit about complaints, the bit under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) Hello I was just wanting some advice I have been told that my behaviour towards children is unprofessional as I had a child who was upset on my lap - the child had come into school upset having to be fetched out of the car by the wraparound manager as they were so upset about coming to school, the child and mother were both upset and the mother left in tears while I was left with a sobbing child - i am sorry but this child was beside themselves and threw themself on me - what was I supposed to do?? I am now starting to doubt what I do???!!!!! The person then went on to tell me that I was young and not very experienced!!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated am I being unprofessional by hugging a child who is upset??? Hi i would do the same as you and comfort the child , i,m sure if the mother had got issue with it she would say. Parents in my setting are greatful we are able to settle thier child ifthey come in up set. Like another read said the day i cannot comfort child then day i will leave working with children . Don t let her put you off what you ve always done its its natural thing to us . Oh yeah if that child did not want comforting then he/ she would of soon got down . Edited May 19, 2009 by bubblybee3107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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