Warning Re. Hire Charges In Community Buildings

[AnonyMouse_19762]

I have just returned from the A.G.M. of our Village Hall Management Committe - and shock, horror when the Treasurer presented accounts to the meeting we have made a loss of £1,400 - this is the first time that we have ever made a loss - two main reasons the hall is now 15 years old and has needed some attention over the past year and added to that we haven't had many party, wedding bookings.

 

Anyway now I have explained the background - I will get to my main point - clearly there will have to be an increase in hire charges - including mine for pre-school.

 

The committee are extremely kind to me - my rent is quite low - in return I do all the secretarial work for the hall.

 

I should also say that I have a room on the first floor which is mine I do not have to 'pack away' - I know that I am very lucky.

 

I'm now having a bit of a 'panic' because I have already set my fees for September and have only increased by 25p per hour - really wish I had made this more - so I just wanted to say to everyone else who may be in a similar situation - ask/think about possible rent increases before you set your new fees - I can't imagine that it will only be our hall that is suffering due to recession.

 

Hope that makes sense and that I haven't bored you all to death with my 'ramblings'

 

Sunnyday

Edited April 21, 2009 by sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_8466]

Thanks for this sunnyday - sorry you've had such a shock!

 

I asked the Parish to bring forward their annual discussions about my rent by a term to enable me to decide my fees and give parents enough notice, so fortunately I always know what is coming up.

 

Will you have scope to do an 'emergency' fees rise to take account of the new rent?

 

Good luck.

 

Maz

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Thank you Maz - yes I will have to think about that.

 

I have spent a lot of money on new equipment this year - so will not need to do that in the next year - mind you we all know just how quickly the 'consumables' paint, paper etc.etc. need replacing - oh well always ready for a challenge!

 

If things got really tight - we have a village fund raiser every year and all groups get a cut from that - I know I could plead poverty and get some extra help - the only problem with that idea is that I am a trustee for that committee - so I would not feel it was morally right somehow. Why oh why do I involve myself in so many things?!!! Well I probably should stand down now as a trustee in preparation!!!

 

Oh well - onwards and upwards!

 

Sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_1027]

oh dear not good hope you can sort something out! - we always checked with our hall before putting up fees too

[AnonyMouse_19762]

oh dear not good hope you can sort something out! - we always checked with our hall before putting up fees too

Thanks for replying Hali - I am really kicking myself now - I handle the bookings and it was ME warning the committee months ago that bookings were down - how thick can I get?!

 

But I am going to INSIST that the jolly Treasurer prepares 'interim' accounts in future - I just hadn't realised just how much money was being spent on repairs and refurbishment at the same time as the sudden downturn in bookings! Committees - aargh!!!

 

Anyway if this thread prevents someone else facing the same problem I will be a happier bunny!

 

Also I am in the lucky position of being 'full' for September with a healthy waiting list - always look on the bright side etc.etc.!!!

 

Sunnyday

Edited April 21, 2009 by sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_13453]

I would tell the parents if I were you, and suggest some good summer fundraising in order that you can keep the fees to the level you have set. If nothing is forthcoming then, you'll be well placed to put a bit more onto the fees - at least they are aware of their responsibilities then - you have forewarned them! You may find that a good summer fundraiser - garden party or sponsored bounce or something brings sufficient support in. You may also find that you can tap into a sustainability grant from a local pot. Hope all works out well! We are waiting for news of our rent hike - it's not gone up for 5 years and still very minimal so we're expecting that as we are now the sole users it will increase a fair bit

[Guest]

Funny it must have been the night for meetings for community building committees as I've just got in from one too! We too have had to make increases but unfortunately we have a bigger problem looming which I can't say anything about really but once it is settled you won't shut me up! We are fortunate that we don't set our fees until later in the year.

[AnonyMouse_19762]

I would tell the parents if I were you, and suggest some good summer fundraising in order that you can keep the fees to the level you have set. If nothing is forthcoming then, you'll be well placed to put a bit more onto the fees - at least they are aware of their responsibilities then - you have forewarned them! You may find that a good summer fundraiser - garden party or sponsored bounce or something brings sufficient support in. You may also find that you can tap into a sustainability grant from a local pot. Hope all works out well! We are waiting for news of our rent hike - it's not gone up for 5 years and still very minimal so we're expecting that as we are now the sole users it will increase a fair bit

Thanks Cait - great advice as ever - my mind is 'whirring' will definitely think about fund raising - big style!!!

 

Sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Funny it must have been the night for meetings for community building committees as I've just got in from one too! We too have had to make increases but unfortunately we have a bigger problem looming which I can't say anything about really but once it is settled you won't shut me up! We are fortunate that we don't set our fees until later in the year.

Oh I'm intrigued - can't wait til you can tell all!

 

Sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_64]

Having dealt with (and been the secretary for!) a Hall Committee in the past, I know how these things can suddenly jump up out of nowhere. The treasurer for our hall also kept things to herself - I think she delighted in the drama of the moment when she announced how dire things had become. It's good advice to think ahead and perhaps hold a contingency fund for such sudden increases, although I know for many groups this just isn't possible.

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Thanks Beau - I am pretty cheesed off with the treasurer but am also very cross with myself!

 

Have already thought of some ways to save some money - I pay for the hall 'phone - a call to B.T. tomorrow that can be 'cut off' - my mobile will be quite adequate!

 

Also have never claimed anything for use of my home 'phone - often used for hall business - never claim for paper, ink for my printer and probably numerous other things - I will hold back on this until I know what my rent increase will be - but if needs be I will stop being quite so generous!

 

Sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_19920]

hi poor you - we hire one of the church rooms there are also several other rooms and large hall which is used by many others - however as they are all community based things such as lunchoen clubs for the elderly etc they pay nothing.this means that we get stung to pay large rental fees - this obviously helps towards the costs of all the community based projects.

we have tried to explain that we do not make a profit and mostly break even but they seem to think that as we recieve government funding then we must have lots of money and therefore can afford to pay large rent increases.

they also know there is nowhere else local that could serve our purpose and therefore we are unable to move anywhere else for a decent rent.

[Guest]

poor you, know the feeling though as our rent has just gone up by £25 per week from this month, this is going to hit us financially... and thats a church building....

[AnonyMouse_19762]

hi poor you - we hire one of the church rooms there are also several other rooms and large hall which is used by many others - however as they are all community based things such as lunchoen clubs for the elderly etc they pay nothing.this means that we get stung to pay large rental fees - this obviously helps towards the costs of all the community based projects.

we have tried to explain that we do not make a profit and mostly break even but they seem to think that as we recieve government funding then we must have lots of money and therefore can afford to pay large rent increases.

they also know there is nowhere else local that could serve our purpose and therefore we are unable to move anywhere else for a decent rent.

Thanks blondie - could you show the committee your accounts? - I think the media are partly to blame here - they are forever reporting on the high cost of childcare - I think people think we are 'rolling in it' - if only!

 

Sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_19762]

poor you, know the feeling though as our rent has just gone up by £25 per week from this month, this is going to hit us financially... and thats a church building....

Thank you simcity - £25 per week - wow that's a lot - how many sessions do you hold each week?

 

Sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_1195]

It puzzles me why some churches are charging community based groups exorbitant rental fees. I'm surprised that the church hasn't set it's fees on scales for community groups and commercial groups. Playgroups/nursery groups would come under a community rent surely. Certainly any Church Halls I know about do this in line with charges made for similar premises, but ensuring that they are competitive. Costs do need to be covered by the Church as they can be quite considerable, and you cannot rely on the increasingly elderly congregations to be able afford to continue to subsidise other activities. Our church waived the rent for a mum and toddlers group until it got off the ground, as it was obvious that it couldn't afford to pay any rent. Then it paid the community rate set by the PCC. The rate is set for the number of hours used, and does not include any group directly subsidising any other activities. Perhaps the way to go is to ask for the rental rates, and make a case for being a designated community user. If the church hasn't thought about formalising the way it charges then perhaps your query will make it get its act together. I don't expect it would like to loose you, as you will be generating some income.

[AnonyMouse_8466]

That's a really good insight into how Church finances work, Jacquie. As you say, pre-school groups often form a signficant part of their income so they are unlikely to want to lose them, however they do need to at least cover costs.

 

I view my rent as having an extra staff member since the hourly rate is the same as I pay my unqualified staff!

 

Not sure how that equates to simcity's hike in rent of £25 a week - not sure any of our staff will be getting that much extra in this year's pay rise!

 

Maz

[Guest]

we hold 9 sessions a week..... this new rent charge is on a scale apparently as they usually charge £25 per day to people who want to hire at the weekends etc, so we do have a reduced rate according to them....

[AnonyMouse_8466]

apparently as they usually charge £25 per day to people who want to hire at the weekends etc, so we do have a reduced rate according to them....

And how many hours does a weekend hirer have the hall for if they have paid £25, simcity?

 

Maz

[Guest]

Hi Happy Maz

They would hire the hall for a saturday afternoon (3hours) for a party and pay £25 so they say we do have discounted rates...

[AnonyMouse_8466]

They would hire the hall for a saturday afternoon (3hours) for a party and pay £25 so they say we do have discounted rates...

Casual hirers of our hall pay £10 an hour - and that's if they live in the village. Can't remember what 'outsiders' pay...

 

Maz

[AnonyMouse_1195]

Ours is the same Maz, £10 per hour for community users, £17 for the first hour of a session for commercial users and then £10 after that. The rise in the cost of gas/electricity has sent the bills up this 12 months, especially as the winter has been very cold, so the heating has had to be put on very early to ensure the hall is warm.

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Just had to tell you all my good news.......

 

Meeting last night to discuss rent increases........mine has gone up by the princely sum of ..........wait for it......0.30p per session!

 

How lucky am I? I even found myself saying "oh no, mine should rise by the same amount as others" - the Committee were having none of it - how wonderful - I came home with a nice warm glow!

 

(The fact that at some time or another I have cared for their children or grandchildren could have something to do with their decision!)

 

sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_8466]

Fab news sunnyday. Wonlder if anyone from our Parish is a member here...?

 

Maz

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Thanks Maz - I am chuffed and relieved in equal measure!!!

[AnonyMouse_13453]

Still waiting to hear from mine - in the meantime I have paid the electricity bill and the water rate - we have never paid these before - the Chapel Committee always paid it from our rent payment. So if we're going to be responsible for utilities then our rent had better be the same or lower than it was, no big hike!!

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Still waiting to hear from mine - in the meantime I have paid the electricity bill and the water rate - we have never paid these before - the Chapel Committee always paid it from our rent payment. So if we're going to be responsible for utilities then our rent had better be the same or lower than it was, no big hike!!

Whoa - how much were they Cait.......suppose you have no choice ....... you have sole use (don't you?) In my humble opinion, taking all this into consideration, you shouldn't have a rent rise as well - surely.

[AnonyMouse_13453]

well not much really, electricity under £20 - well, we've not been there over the summer of course, and the water rate 6 months was £80 so again, not a huge amount. We're going to have to change the doors and windows this year I think though - so they will have to take that into consideration

[AnonyMouse_19762]

well not much really, electricity under £20 - well, we've not been there over the summer of course, and the water rate 6 months was £80 so again, not a huge amount. We're going to have to change the doors and windows this year I think though - so they will have to take that into consideration

Will I send Mr Sunnyday up to Cumbria to change doors and windows?

 

You'll have to 'put him up' though that's too far to commute!

 

How much will electricity bill be for winter months.......aren't you electric heating?

Edited September 11, 2009 by sunnyday

[AnonyMouse_13453]

We're all electric, yes. And ooh would be fab if Mr Sunnyday could do it, wouldn't it!