Guest Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 Bare with me, this is only my 2nd post and Im not very good with words....Here goes: Basically my setting (Fulldaycare 3months-8years) is just off a main street. There is a front courtyard, then a downstairs like foyer area. You then have to go up the flight of stairs to get to our actual nursery door which is also bolted shut. We use the front courtyard as a garden and the foyer has displays etc as it is still part of our nursery. The foyer is where the parents leave pushchairs as they can't get them up the flight of stairs (We are moving premises in 12 months time) to the nursery. We also have a comments box in the foyer and on the same table is photo albums of previous nursery children and recent activities the children have been up to. We checked the comments box today and there was an anonymous note saying: 'I have just walked in off the street. I could have stolen the pushchairs without anyone knowing and I have instant access to children's photos.I work in a childrens centre and we are very health and safety conscious..I love how friendly and open you are but am not sure this will pass ofsted.' Firstly, Ofsted have never said anything about the buggies being left there (the parents are aware upon the induction that they leave the pushchair there at their own risk and can bring them upstairs if they like but they choose not to) and secondly, when the parent fills in the welcome pack they sign a disclaimer to say that they give permission for their child's photo to be used in newspapers, videos, learning journeys, advertising leaflets etc. Basically what i'm asking is- is this a problem that we need to take action to correct? I am quite upset that another childcare professional made this comment yet failed to have a verbal conversation with us about it given the 'seriousness' of the comment made. What are your views? Thankyou Nat
AnonyMouse_7317 Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 Hi Welcome to the forum, to be honest as long as a sign is up saying you hold no resposibility for the pushchairs parents leave them at their own risk. When it comes to the photos i would be quite worried even with permission to leave them where any one off the street could come in take the photos and use for their own purposes. Feel the person could have done it better by arranging a visit with you to share links and had a nice chat but maybe they never felt confident enough to do this. Please realise these are just my feelings on the photos and as Iam not Ofsted would not dream of trying to tell another practitioner how to run ther nursery.
AnonyMouse_21879 Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 Hi Welcome to the forum, to be honest as long as a sign is up saying you hold no resposibility for the pushchairs parents leave them at their own risk. When it comes to the photos i would be quite worried even with permission to leave them where any one off the street could come in take the photos and use for their own purposes. Feel the person could have done it better by arranging a visit with you to share links and had a nice chat but maybe they never felt confident enough to do this. Please realise these are just my feelings on the photos and as Iam not Ofsted would not dream of trying to tell another practitioner how to run ther nursery. Completely agree with the comment above. I, too, feel a bit 'iffy' about the photos being accessed so easily. I know what you are saying about photo permission (our parents do the same) that anyone could access them from newspapers etc, however, that is not quite the same as you 'putting them out there' on your own premises. The open access foyer is exactly the same as my new nursery and I have struggled to convince my business partner about the fact that this is open at all times (locked door/bell system to then access the premises.) So I'm very interested in other people's comments on this one. As for the other professional making the comments, I can understand their reticence in coming forward, but can equally understand your own upset. As for going forward with this one, have you thought about asking your parents via an anonymous questionnaire? And have you tried asking your inspecto directly? I've always found them very helpful. Hope it all works out for you.
Guest Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 Completely agree with the comment above. I, too, feel a bit 'iffy' about the photos being accessed so easily. I know what you are saying about photo permission (our parents do the same) that anyone could access them from newspapers etc, however, that is not quite the same as you 'putting them out there' on your own premises. The open access foyer is exactly the same as my new nursery and I have struggled to convince my business partner about the fact that this is open at all times (locked door/bell system to then access the premises.) So I'm very interested in other people's comments on this one. As for the other professional making the comments, I can understand their reticence in coming forward, but can equally understand your own upset. As for going forward with this one, have you thought about asking your parents via an anonymous questionnaire? And have you tried asking your inspecto directly? I've always found them very helpful. Hope it all works out for you. Thanks for both comments guys. I understand your views about the photos, i have been concerned about this in the past...but i am merely a level 3 practitioner....my manager makes ultimate decisions and can sometimes take some persuasion to change her ideas . Anyhow, i think i will ask for a meeting to be held to discuss this, i may also get my manager to ring ofsted about this. I agree tho yeh, if someone were to take photos from a paper for their own use, it wouldn't come back on us as it would if we had almost 'provided' them with it on our own premises. Maybe we could move them to the 'reception' area of the nursery for people to view when they visit the nursery for inductions etc etc. That way, we would have control over who see's them. We do have photos all the way up the stair on the walls which parents love...these are attached to the wall so i would say it would be ok to leave these as ofsted liked them and we here people coming up the stairs anyway. I understand what you mean, looking at it from both views, I guess that they may have worried about being challenged about their comment/seen as interfering etc, but i guess atleast they told us in one way/shape/form..because sometimes you don't always think of crucial things when you have a lovely idea present! Locking the bottom door to the foyer would not be feasible as that would be mean a member of staff constantly running up and down the stairs! So yeh, im thinking- put a sign up about the pushchairs being left at owners risk and if you wish to bring upstairs for security then thats fine and also to just remove the photo albums and put them in the reception area inside the nursery itself. Thankyous :) Nat
AnonyMouse_79 Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 im thinking- put a sign up about the pushchairs being left at owners risk and if you wish to bring upstairs for security then thats fine and also to just remove the photo albums and put them in the reception area inside the nursery itself. Thankyous :) Nat That seems like the safest option!
Guest Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I work in a nursery attached to the school, where the parents and children have their own nursery entrance which essentially is the cloakroom area. Some years ago we displayed photographs in this cloakroom area. On one occasion we were looking at the idea of space and the pictures were of the children making the huge rocket and engaging in activities which were supporting this space theme. Two photographs went missing from the board. Of the same child. We talked about it to the children (the loss of the pics) and the child in the photographs that were missing said "My Nans got the pictures in her car" We followed this up sensitively but as the photographs were not returned and no one admitted the theft it became a child protection issue which long story short resulted in us not being allowed to display phootgraphs of the children in the cloakroom area! I think its bad enough to think a parent/ relative might take the pics but if there is public access to photographs of the children in your nursery I think I might think twice about having them there.
Guest Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I agree with you that she perhaps could have come and spoken about it to you as one professional to another tho. she had some valid points but the way she told you made you feel bad. Perhaps the displayed photos could be showing a child playing but not a proper shot, if you know what i mean, so the child can't be easily identified. Can't believe that nan stole the photos!!!! omg!
Guest Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 How about putting a buzzer and video phone system on the front door so that you can buzz parents into your foyer area? That's what they did at my little girl's nursery. It's such a shame that we feel the need to be so paranoid. The overwhelming majority of child protection issues are in the child's own home, 'stranger danger' is being over stated in such a way as to make children fearful of anyone they don't know. Sad.
AnonyMouse_15046 Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I think that in your position I might get express permission from parents to display photos of their child in this foyer. Then perhaps look into the feasability of putting up one of the notice boards with lockable glass panels over them. It does feel like we are all getting a little paranoid. People can take their own photos of our children as they walk down the street so I can't really so the big problem with them having access to photos from your foyer. Would Ofsted have a problem with it? I really don't know about that one. Are there any Ofted inspectors secretly lurking who would like to answer that one?
AnonyMouse_64 Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I'm not quite sure what you think someone would do with the photos?? Providing they don't have names on them I can't see that it is a problem!
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I'm not quite sure what you think someone would do with the photos?? Providing they don't have names on them I can't see that it is a problem! Have to say that is my feeling too. Pushchairs left at parents own risk - can't see a problem with that either. Did this suggestion come from one of your parents or am I reading correctly that this was another practitioner completely unconnected to your setting? If so I find it quite extraordinary that they would do that!
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Can I just ask something as a matter of interest? Would you treat a comment made like this as a complaint? Maz
Guest Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Can I just ask something as a matter of interest? Would you treat a comment made like this as a complaint? Maz I would think you would have to? File it in complaints file and what action you decided to take - then they are able to show how they have justified things if it was challenged or the anon commenter decided to take it further seeing that the pushchairs were still downstairs etc Clare
Guest Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Good idea. Put all this in a plastic wallet and then if Ofsted ever do query it you can show them your evidence that you have thought it through, seeked advice and made a professional judgement. Looks to me like no one strongly agrees with the comments in your suggestion box.
Guest Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) I agree - file it, along with a risk assessment of the area/procedures currently in place to show you've "reflected" on your practice and ask the parents for their opinions. That should tick a lot of Ofsted boxes!! Nona p.s I'm not mocking your post, honest!! I bet we've all walked in to other settings and thought "I/we wouldn't do it like that!" but not left an anonymous note! Edited September 8, 2009 by Guest
AnonyMouse_79 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Photos, even without names in the public domain could cause a problem if a child was being looked for by someone else--ie an estranged parent or other adult. Hopefully a parent who had those issues would have informed you but its easy to overlook the child in the background?
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 i have not read all the post so i may be the only one not agreeing here. but why do the photo's cause a problem? providing there are no names and your policy on collecting children is water tight. my daughters photo is on web site and in local papers for her football, we have photos in our nursery lobby where other hall users may see them, i might be missing some thing here but what is the problem?
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi! I work at the same nursery as NatJCooper.........where the comment was left (this is my first post by the way!) Personally I think its a shame that small issues like this cause us all so much worry, like we don't already have enough to do! I have put up a notice about the pushchairs and I will mention it to all parents. I don't think that we should have to take down any photos but maybe just use some sort of sticky back plastic to cover all displays so that they are not easily removed. I like the suggestion of the glass display cabinet but I think the suggestion of putting in an intercom system is a little short sighted, we are a privately run nursery and cost is an issue. However I think that this forum is a great way of sharing ideas and airing issues such as this. Lou x
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Lou - welcome to the forum! Now I'm wondering if NatJCooper a) recommended the site as a source of fabulous advice and support (yes!) or said "check out the nutters on here? I KNOW the answer is A! Hope ths situation in nursery is resolved soon. Nona
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 I agree - file it, along with a risk assessment of the area/procedures currently in place to show you've "reflected" on your practice and ask the parents for their opinions. That should tick a lot of Ofsted boxes!! Nona p.s I'm not mocking your post, honest!! I bet we've all walked in to other settings and thought "I/we wouldn't do it like that!" but not left an anonymous note! Hi, just starting to look at the forum, saw your query and would like to ask how would you feel about leaving your own children's photographs out on public displayin this way? I always use this as one of my 'rules of thumb'...as a parent, how would I feel or if the child was me how would I feel? Sometimes taking these viewpoints can change your whole perspective.
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 as a parent, how would I feel or if the child was me how would I feel? Those are good questions to ask in most eventualities, I find Christine! Welcome to the Forum - hope it will be the first of many posts. Maz
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hi! I like the suggestion of the glass display cabinet but I think the suggestion of putting in an intercom system is a little short sighted, we are a privately run nursery and cost is an issue. However I think that this forum is a great way of sharing ideas and airing issues such as this. Lou x Welcome, Louise and Nat I also work in a privately run nursery and I'm afraid I have to comment here. Where children's security is concerned I don't think cost should come into it. We have a thumbprint access system with a coded internal security door; there is also closed circuit tv coverage of all access areas. If anyone wants access whose thumbprint isn't registered they buzz the door, if they are recognised on the screen they are buzzed in, then a staff member allows them access into the nursery proper through the coded security door. Only long-standing staff, who know parents and what to do in different situations, answer the buzzer and no-one other than staff or Directors know the access code. As for the main thrust of the thread, I agree with much of what has been said, but it has crossed my mind that maybe a parent left the comment, perhaps nervous of bringing the matter up? So, yes, I would think the parent/carer questionnaire would be a good idea. Sue
AnonyMouse_6541 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I work in a nursery that could not afford to purchase a door system such as the ones many people have in this forum,(we do not have a security problem) but i was wondering, at certain times of the day it would be a nightmare to lock that door and have staff run up and down the stairs, but would it be possible to have set times where it stayed open ie. the beginning and end of set sessions? and then have it locked in between those? Its just an idea, and may even help your sessions if you have parents turning up at all times, to know that there will be set times when they can freely come and go, and they will have to wait until you have a free staff member to answer when the sessions are in full flow! Good luck!! Ali
Guest Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 It would be nice to lock the door at specified times but we are fully flexible, we have parents coming and going almost hourly some days. The problem is no longer a problem, we are discussing it with one of our advisors and we will be limiting photos displayed in this area to non-identifyable pictures. the parents are all happy to leave their buggies where they have been leaving them for a long time. We will be adding it to our parent questionnaire. I agree that cost SHOULD never be an issue but in reality this is not always possible, we have no security issues and this comment has been the first of its kind. Will are looking to move premises so costly security systems are not an option right now. Ofsted, NVQ and University assessors have all said how nice it is to have these pictures displayed where they are. I feel rather slefish that Nat and I have taken up so much of everyones time!! But i find this sort of forum so helpfull because you get a large scale discussion in the comfort of your own home! this sort of discussion is one of the things i miss about being at University, so thank you! Lou x
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I feel rather slefish that Nat and I have taken up so much of everyones time!! Don't worry on that score, Louise. The great thing about the Forum is that when someone posts a question or raises a query it makes us all reflect on our own practice and look at whether we're doing things in the best way. Its reflective practice of the highest quality - so thanks for making us all think! Maz
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I feel rather slefish that Nat and I have taken up so much of everyones time!! But i find this sort of forum so helpfull because you get a large scale discussion in the comfort of your own home! this sort of discussion is one of the things i miss about being at University, so thank you! Lou x Just to echo what Maz has said no need to feel like that - we are all here to support and help each other - I have taken up peoples time on here with things not even connected to Early Years! Sunnyday
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Just so you are clear ( ) - please continue to take up time!!! That's why this forum exists - Louise, you make the point about missing this sort of discussion. Many of us also felt like that, before we found this Forum - spread the word!! Just look back at the 'Who are we' page ! Keep it up, girls, - Whoops!! and chaps! Sue
Guest Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Just so you are clear ( ) - please continue to take up time!!! That's why this forum exists - Louise, you make the point about missing this sort of discussion. Many of us also felt like that, before we found this Forum - spread the word!! Just look back at the 'Who are we' page ! Keep it up, girls, - Whoops!! and chaps! Sue Aww thanks!! Yeh its wicked that the forum is here to help us, it really is good! Lou u stole my post LOL, only kidding, love you muchly.. Anyway back to the topic. I understand that this is an issue as anyone could have access to the photos, but it saddens me to think that we have to take all these security options into mind as the world never used to be this bad...or atleast it didnt seem to be. I feel that our nursery is 100% secure enough as it is because we never unlock the door/open to a person that we are unaware of and new staff and students never have the responsibility of opening the door. However, as someone has flagged this up, it has made us very conscious about the situation and these are the following steps we will take: Move the albums to reception (in building behind locked door) Log complaint in complaints booklet Send out parental questionnaire asking for thoughts on this matter in a sensitive manner Do risk assessment and a contingency plan to ensure this problem never arises again Look into getting an intercom system so that only 'trustworthy' people can have access to any of the building, let alone the nursery itself. Thank you so much for your suggestions, they have really helped and i feel an immense amount of support from this forum, even upon my first proper post. I am addicted to this site already and have only been a member for a week lol! Happing posting and enjoy your weekend. Thanks peeps Nat
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 All looks like an excellent plan to me Nat! Hope you have a great weekend too! Sunnyday
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