AnonyMouse_19762 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 This is a question from one of my 'ex' parents - hope you don't mind.... Her little girl (aged 4) started reception at the beginning of term - she is a very capable little girl - Primary school offer 2 full days and 1 half day.....parents have asked if this can be increased, but the school are saying no........ I have no idea whether this is 'right' or not ..... and don't really want to get involved....but have been asked for help......
Guest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 It is all dependent on the county - they set the legislation. In Hampshire all children from last week had to be doing at least 12 and a half hours a week. Our Autumn children went full time today, the springs next week and our summers do just mornings until half term, then they stay for lunch for 4 weeks before starting full time on the 30th November. Some areas have them all in full time from day 1 while others don't become full time until after Christmas. It really would be better if it was nationally the same but heigh ho!!
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 My children are all in full time 8.45 - 3.30 x 5 days
Guest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 My class are in full time from day 1! 9.00 - 3.15, with a staggered lunch start, but all in for lunch b the end of the week
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Week 1 till midday, week 2 + lunch, week 3 full time. I think they must do full time by week 3. One of our schools has split up the intake to allow for this by up to Dec. birthdays in from 7th Sept. Spring birthdays started this Monday and summer birthdays start after half term. One school do the classic two intakes, and one school does one intake - nice mixture - just to keep everyone on their toes!!
Guest Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I have done two weeks of mornings, and two weeks of mornings with lunch and then going full time, which makes me quite early for schools around me and earlier than my school has ever had before (this is the same no matter when in the year the children are born). But on saying that, last year when I had some children in mornings, and some afternoons I did have a little girl who was full time as she was G&T. BUT I recieved so much flax from all the other parents that i'm not sure I'd set myself up for that again, and can see the school's point. Yes we should take the child first - but there is also a point of having good parent relationships and unfortunately its all a case of balancing at the moment. Personally I would rather have them in full time from day one, but then again I would also like a preschool on site - ah one can but dream.
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 Thanks all....I had already told her that I thought she needed to contacted LEA....... As I said I really don't want to get involved - I have to maintain a good relationship with the school. From my understanding her daughter will be full-time after half term - so maybe she just needs to accept that and not 'rock the boat' Thanks again Sunnyday
AnonyMouse_79 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 And my Lea seems to allow individual schools to operate their own policies, some take all children full time but we take Autumn born and some spring/ summer children depending on numbers in part time in September and these children remain mornings only all term. The younger children start part time after Christmas for half a term although this too until recently was for the Spring term. Its a nightmare!
Guest Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Hi Sunny, it's totally random here but thank goodness at my little boy's school they are straight in from day one. I couldn't be doing with all that faffing around. I think now with the NEG so many children go to pre school that many are just ready and waiting to get stuck in! Also I'm sure it's easier for the teacher to have the 'full' class all at once, as it can really change the group dynamics when new children start. Not any help to your original question sorry! Sue.
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Although it may not suit every parent actually the change from previous settings to the bigger,wider and far less adult supported world of EYFS in a school setting can be a trifle tricky even for the most balanced of children. So graduated entry allows the school to settle children into new routines and new relationships situations like dinner time, hall times, much bigger kids around, supply cover for PPA time etc etc and give children the time they may need to get used to what is actually new to them. whilst allowing the few adults in the class to get to know the children a bit better during that time. Ratios again I'm afraid. Re school entry points church schools can set their own arrangement but LA schools generally have to abide by the LA system as I think applications are all now centralised or at least they are in my LA so parents apply like they would for secondary school for a place. Cx Edited September 23, 2009 by catma
Guest Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Although it may not suit every parent actually the change from previous settings to the bigger,wider and far less adult supported world of EYFS in a school setting can be a trifle tricky even for the most balanced of children. So graduated entry allows the school to settle children into new routines and new relationships situations like dinner time, hall times, much bigger kids around, supply cover for PPA time etc etc and give children the time they may need to get used to what is actually new to them. whilst allowing the few adults in the class to get to know the children a bit better during that time. Ratios again I'm afraid. Very well explained Catma - it's worked well with us as last week we had autumn and springs in for the mornings and summers in for the afternoons, so 30 altogether, then 22 so good group sizes. This week we have them all in the morning and they are so calm and settled because they all got used to things when there were smaller numbers. Our Autumns have gone full time for the first week and are starting to get really tired - you wouldn't think playing would be sooooo exhausting!!!!
AnonyMouse_4544 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 My LA has a policy for a single intake but individual schools have different entry arrangements. I have all my children in full time from the first day but a neighbouring school takes over a month to move to full time and in the neighbouring LA some children are part time until the Spring term.
AnonyMouse_6541 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 We take children in from several schools in the area. Some of them have done 2 weeks 1/2 day finishing just before lunch, there was a staggered start too, not sure how they worked that out, possibly by birthdays, but all the children went full time on monday. Another school did 1 week of mornings, then a week of afternoons, and then full days. again, they started full time after 2 weeks. The school our premises are on took the children in full time straight away. Most of them where returning from last years nursery anyways and this is the only school that seems to have considered that some children have been in full time nursery care, or at least 1/2 day for over a year now. All the children seemed to have settled in well regardless of how the intake was managed though, so i guess its what works best for the individual settings. Ali
Guest Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 What I didn't add, but which makes a HUGE difference, is that the reception intake is only about 6-8 pupils, who go into a mixed R/Y1/Y2 class. If you only have a few children, I guess it's much easier to settle them in full time.
Guest Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 My class are split - Autumn and Spring births have been full time since the start of term, Summer births start full time after Christmas. Another school just down the road has everyone start in the Autumn term, but only the Autmn and Spring born are full time, the Summer born go home at lunchtime then everyone goes full time after Christmas. I guess it's just down to each school's policy. I may get shot down in flames for saying this but I'd prefer mine to all start this term so they all get equal access to the curriculum and the friendship groups.
AnonyMouse_25331 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I thought that ALL children were entitled to a full time place from the September after their 4th birthday, and this could be taken at either an LEA setting or a PVI (but you could share between these two). However, schools weren't obliged to offer a place it was upto them. Our local school were considering immediate full time from Sept 2009 and we went through this a lot with parents who didn't want full time at school but they couldn't accept mornings at school and come back to Pre-school 1 or 2 afternons and still be funded. Couple of points though:- 1. we are in Oxfordshire so maybe it is differnt in different areas 2. my brain sometimes throws out bits of information and I'm not sure where it comes from my boss thinks I make stuff up! trouble is I can remember lots of interesting snippets but don't forget them when something new comes along
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Oh I do so know what you mean I thought that I had understood that in Kent, children had to go full time within 3 weeks of starting at school, that is why one of our local primaries has split the intake up so bizzarely. However, it would appear that some schools in Kent are still doing what the darn well pleazy!!
Guest Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Oh I do so know what you mean I thought that I had understood that in Kent, children had to go full time within 3 weeks of starting at school, that is why one of our local primaries has split the intake up so bizzarely. However, it would appear that some schools in Kent are still doing what the darn well pleazy!! I'm in kent too and we were 'advised' to ensure that chn were in full time from week 3- this is week 3 and my chn are starting full time on Monday. I have to say though I know of schools near here that don't take some chn full time until Feb! I guess until it all chn have to have a full time place from September after their 4th bday legal-which was a suggestion from Jim Rose's recent review- no one can force schools to do anything about this issue.
Guest Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 In the previous county I worked for there was an issue about entitlement. It came off the back of Year 7's starting secondary school before the other pupils and these children not getting their entitlement of days in the year. The Autumn born children had to start full time from day one. At my particular school, for the Spring and Summer born children to be full time or part time was down to parental choice and the schools decision as to the readiness of each individual child. Therefore if the spring and summer born children started part time from September - to fulfill their entitlement of days they had to start on the first day of term with the Autumn born children. If the Spring and Summer born children were going to start the Autumn term as full time, the start of the term for these children could be staggered because they would fulfill their entitlement of time over the year. It did mean there were issues for schools that used the previous staggered start to do home visits in the Autumn term. I always found that having the youngest children in first, worked really well as they potentially needed more attention and support which gave us more time to do this. The county I'm in now all the schools have the Autumn born in from September and the Spring and Summer born don't start full time until Christmas. Personally, I would prefer them to start full time at least by half term particularly for those children who need to develop their socialisation and language skills, which are enhanced greatly by spending time with their peers.
Guest Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Mine have been in full time from Monday this week. Before that we had 2 weeks of part-time half the child ame in the mornings and for lunch then the next week in the afternoons and vice versa. I love having them all in full time from now- as JessD said this way they all get equal access to the curriculum and the friendship groups!
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 We're moving to one point of entry next sept!! Cx
Guest Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 HI all going to resurrect this post as everyone has to allow for all children to be full time in september (although if parents choose they can be part time or defer their place). My school has always had autumn children full time and spring summers part time until christmas then full time. I'm fine with them all in like a previous post said friendship groups etc but just trying to think about how to organise coming in whether just to have them all in day 1 full time, have a stagger start of say autumn children full time for a couple of days then spring to join them then summer. I guess it also depends on when the children actually start back which day inset days etc and how many autumn, spring, summer. Also thought maybe a couple days mornings all of them then staying for lunch and then staying all day. I'm sure there is someone that says that everyone has to have their children in whether full time part time by a certain date? would be interesting to hear what others are doing. I have to spoken to local schools all seems to do things a little different wish tehy would just say this is what you need to do
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 We have had them all in on day 1 for a long time - but we are a small school and the intake is usually only about 18, so we can do that - I assume 30 in all at once on day 1 might be a little more chaotic....!
AnonyMouse_73 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 We used to do the opposite from what might appear the norm. We used to take in our less confident, newer and often younger children first so they had opportunities to a few days to settle before the more confident, often noisier children arrived. We found this worked really well.
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 All schools do it differently and not sure there is a correct or better way.. that said from a parents view the staggered mix of sometimes mornings sometimes afternoons, lunch some days and not others... and all the other mixes we have had over the years is a cause of irritation.. not just for the parents but also for the children who never know what is happening one day to the next... have seen so many variations over the years and parents always complain to us when they pass... some of the children will already have been spending all day at preschool and then find they suddenly cannot go to school all day... if they have siblings at the school the problem is 'they can go all day why cannot I?' some may/will find all day hard but just as many will be fine.. whatever you decide think about how the child may feel and try to keep to a routine rather than chop and change the sessions around too much... and I do know of a local school who manages well all in on day 1 , 30 together and see how it goes.. if any need shorter days this is discussed with parents and sorted out on an individual basis.
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Thank you its the lunch times that i think are the scary bit in a hall with lots of older kids and noise. I do agree with the irritation to come for an hour one day and 2 hours another day would be a pain especially if they do have siblings then they want to be with them. I'm thinking mornings first for a few days then stay for lunch for a few days and then i was thinking maybe stay all day a thur andf fri so they have weekend to recover ready to start full time. In the summer term we will have our visits. We usually invite pre school in to come for some story times so they come with familiar people and teh go to visist children in pre school as well. We will then have a parents meeting in the evening so dads can come. The we thought have a play in class that parents can stay with their child and play with them in class we can the observe how they interact with parents. in past some just stand there and watch child others talk to their child sit with them/play with them. then we are going to have 2 other sessions where children can come in the afternoons to come and play (without parents if they can) the past 2 years we have had a 1-1 meeting with the parents in september just before they started school. Have been thinking though how much we do the parents really tell us about their child and whether we would gain more insight into home visits???? If people do do home visits do you do them in july before holidasy or in september? so much to organise everyone else starts to wind down after easter hols with reception its all go!!!
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Thank you its the lunch times that i think are the scary bit in a hall with lots of older kids and noise. I do agree with the irritation to come for an hour one day and 2 hours another day would be a pain especially if they do have siblings then they want to be with them. That's where your dinner time staff have to play a part in being key workers and understand the requirements of that role ie looking out for the children's well being. Our LA went to 1 pt of entry last autumn and all the staff I speak to have really seen the benefit this Jan when they didn't have an influx of younger children and no extra adult staffing to support the increase! Cx
Guest Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 I was one of those children who didn't start full time straight away, I had to do half days at first (I don't remember how long for, my memory isn't that good!) I do have a very vivid memory though of looking enviously into the hall where the older reception children were eating their lunch. I would have loved to stay all day and hated going home at lunchtime! Just thought I'd give a child's point of view there, although as a teacher I'm not entirely sure what I'd think about 30 reception children starting full time from day one. I think I'd probably very rapidly see why my school packed some of us off home at lunchtime, at least for a few weeks!
Guest Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 I recently attended our admissions forum and there it was made clear that any parent can defer entry into school until the term after which a child is five (although entitled to a full-time place from the term after they are four). However for summer born children if a parent wants to defer until Year One, the school is entitled to fill that vacant space so a place may not be available to them. In effect a parent could therefore defer entry until Easter whatever the school's official policy once a place has been offered. We have one entry point, we've done it for four years now and I think it works much better provided the provision takes into account the needs of younger children.
AnonyMouse_73 Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I recently attended our admissions forum and there it was made clear that any parent can defer entry into school until the term after which a child is five (although entitled to a full-time place from the term after they are four). Just clarifying if you mean the September after they are 4, rather than the term. If they are autumn born the term after they are 4 would place them in nursery rather than reception. Eggwoman, Ive always been a big fan home visits, and we used to do them in September, just before they started. We staggered out intake so that we could do them in the first few weeks.
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