Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 This staff member does TOO much paperwork and that may be the problem.....she is really brilliant at writing up her records and takes time to cross reference everything with too much detail really......and that is the reason, I think, that she cannot do this at work - it is brilliant that she is so detailed but it really does stress her out. Have you told this to her? What I mean is, does she know she is doing too much? Could you help her out by perhaps working with her on the files sometime and pointing out what she does and doesn't need to include? Going back on what you have said and what you believe will only cause you huge problems in the furture. Sadly it's hard to gain respect and easy to lose it and if you go back on what you have said just because one staff member didn't like it all staff will take that as a sign of weak leadership. Staff know when their leaders have backed down simply to avoid difficult confrontations! I think you need to stick to your guns on this one, otherwise you are building problems for yourself in the future when you want to change the next thing - staff will be far less willing to accept change because they will have learned that if they create a confrontation you will back down. Yes, it is just like dealing with small children's undesirable behaviour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Hi .....yes I have mentioned that her notes are too detailed but she retaliates pretty quick with that's the only way she can do it......she was not due in today, she works tomorrow but didn't return the files and so luckily no parents asked to see the files and Ofsted didn't visit or I would of been in trouble Thinking of phoning her....but maybe better dealt with tomorrow.......delaying the inevitable....other staff noticed today....well one did and then told others and so the situation has worsened in that they are furious that she took her notes home......I will definetly deal with this situation now but am not looking forward to it.....it is so difficult to get any privacy at work...we have a tiny office......need to think this through tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Oh golly golly! I was thinking she might have sneaked them back in last night! Keeping them today is really silly as she can't hope to keep it a secret. I think you are going to have to take the bull by the horns and ask her to see you first thing. The other staff members will be expecting you to, and it's only fair to them that you do. Like you say, you would have been in trouble if a parent or someone had asked for it, so you definitely need to tackle her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Oh golly golly! I was thinking she might have sneaked them back in last night! Yes, I thought this too Cait. Shirel do you think she is throwing down the gauntlet to you in some way? Not bringing them back leaves you in no position to ignore it now - especially as other staff members are aware. Seems a confrontation of some kind is now almost inevitable - I hope you can resolve it without too much upset and angst though. Good luck tomorrow - let us know how things go. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I don't know about your setting, shirel, but when I was in a pre-school and too many people had keys (AHEM!! Know what I mean??) I just said that the steering committee of the building were unhappy about so many keys around in the community and they wanted excess ones back! Of course (and I actually did this, to be certain) at the next steering committee meeting, I handed all the extra keys over, citing security. My problem was solved. (any help?) Sue Ah, I must have missed some posts. I still stand by what I said, though. Although it does now look like a confrontation is inevitable - good luck xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Thanks for hanging on and commenting everyone...I have just phoned her to ask if she had the files at home.....she said she did and that she had mentioned to me she would bring them home as there was no other way she could do it...I don't recall her saying this and said so and she said that doesn't matter, what matters is that it just isn't working for her. I asked if she could bring the files back tomorrow and we would talk further.......she said that would be fine....but I should consider getting her a small locked cabinet to transport them to keep them safe....? aaarrrrggghhhh I hate it....don't want to sound too wimpish but my heart stepped up a beat and I feel horrible about laying down the law....I realise it is my job...but she was very clear on the phone that she won't be able to do it any other way????? Tomorrow I will have to make time to talk to her.....but I worry about the aftermath of our conversation......I feel she may walk out...leave.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) It may sound harsh, but .... would that be so bad? "Them's the rules" as one of my team said to a child today, and that's it really. If you've all agreed that that's what you're all doing, then that's what she must abide by, really. She can't openly flout them like this. As for asking you to pay for a lockable cabinet, that's going to be expensive - you'd have to do the same for everyone, and the decision has already been made - they DON'T go out! What was the general consensus of opinion from the other staff - you said that they all know she flouted the rule, but is the general feeling that 'if she's doing it then we will' or 'we said we wouldn't and she's wrong'? Edited February 8, 2010 by Cait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Here's a few questions to ask yourself. What were your concerns about members of staff taking files home? Will these be overcome by buying her a lockable cabinet, or are there other concerns that can only be satisfied by staff members completing the work in the setting? Do you stand by your original decision to prevent staff members taking files home? Are other staff completely happy with this new way of working? If she is the only staff member struggling to make this work has she given it enough of a trial to know it isn't working? Is there a compromise you can reach either that she gives it more time and you review it again after a set period, or could you offer her time away from the children to complete some of the work in session time? I'm not a believer in getting into entrenched positions and sticking to your guns just because you don't want to lose face - if you've brought in a change that actually isn't working then there is no shame in holding up your hands and saying that it didn't work and let's find a different way. However, if you genuinely believe that this change is in the best interests of the children and staff then you need to stick to your guns. Finally, what is the worst that can happen? If this member of staff leaves will your whole setting fall down around your ears? You can't go through your managerial career being held to ransome because you think someone might leave - you'll never be confident and your authority will be fatally weakened as a result. Clearly this staff member needs support to adapt to a different way of working both in terms of the level of detail she appears to need to provide, and in not being able to take home the files. I'm just saying that if you're clear about your objectives and at heart feel this was the correct decision, you need to look at how to work with this person to bring about the change your setting needs, but if she is not prepared to work with you and decides to leave instead then you would have to respect her position. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, shirel. Take care Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) Apart from anything else, Shirel, how valued and important is this member of staff to you? Could you replace her and her skills within a reasonable time period? Are you prepared to put the decision of whether this person takes home her folders and nobody else does to the vote with your colleagues siting extenuating circumstances? You are committee run, are you not? Is it worth running this past anyone on that? Typically posts have crossed - seems like you have made your decision Shirel! Be confident with it and know that the rest of the staff are backing you, they are making it work. Edited February 8, 2010 by Panders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Thanks maz....yes I have given it a lot of thought - I stand by the reasons for enforcing this rule......one obvious reason is that the files were not in the cupboard today and I frequently tell parents they can look at the files whenever they like.....luckily no one asked for those files today.....i have managed to speak to all staff members who are happy with the changes as they feel they don't have the burden of having to do them at home......I would back down if it had gone completely wrong.......but it seems to be going ok apart from this blip - I naturally hate being bossy..(I know you are questioning my managerial skills) but I am soooo flexible and welcome all staff input to help run the setting.....I think it may be time for me to be firm about this though....thanks sooooooo very much everyone...you are great and such a support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 (I know you are questioning my managerial skills) Definitely NOT questioning your managerial skills - being a manager doesn't mean you have to be 'bossy' at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I wish I had known you, Maz, years ago when I had a similar issue. That was about intractability and seriously threatened the viability of the setting. As you have pointed out and helped shirel clarify, this doesn't seem to be central here. Wonderful advice and discussion - what I love so much about this EYFSF!!! So proud to belong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I know you are questioning my managerial skills ooh shirel I'm the very last person to question anyone's managerial skills, especially yours! I just wanted to ask you some questions to help you reflect on where the problem really lies because you seemed to be having a bit of a wobble. Sorry - and I was trying to be soo careful about what I said! Please don't think of it as being bossy though: you're not a bossy person. You're the manager of the setting and are committed to raising standards and improving outcomes for the children you care for. You give your staff a sound structure within which to work, but at the same time ensuring their views and feelings of staff are respected. You have a clear mandate for resolving this issue with this staff member, and have every right to expect your role as manager to be respected. Managing staff is the single most difficult bit of the job I think - and you've faced more than your fair share of challenges in this job, one way or another. I'm full of admiration for you shirel because you approach everything from such an ethical standpoint and are so reflective about your own practice as well as that of your setting as a whole. Keep plugging on - and let us know how it goes. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 OK, my two'penneth... I was in the same position as you as playleader, one member of staff who constantly did what ever she wanted. I pussy footed around, spoke nicely, checked she was ok with this that and everything else, helped her wth stuff and really tried to be supportive. Every single thing was thrown back at me. She never saw things from the rest of the staffs point of view, she caused tension and an atmosphere that was detectable by parents. I have alway kicked myself for not being more upfront, forceful and downright bossy. She's still there, the current playleader knew her for years and is quite prepared to say tings, but she admitted it was only after realsising that she is so thick skined and stubborn that most things can be said to her without fear of upset. Stand your ground. you're right, she's not. Its not about being bossy its about standing up for the rest of your team, something i wish I'd been more able to do. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Shirel, Bossy - no! Assertive - YES!!!! You made an informed decision on the policies and procedures you and your staff would follow. Your staff are supportive and not impressed by the attititude and behaviour of this person. I'm sure they'll all be expecting you to deal with this situation first thing in the morning and they'll be with you in spirit - as will we! No-one likes a confrontation but sometimes it just has to be done. Good Luck, let us know how it goes, Nona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 THANK YOU ALL!!! What a lovely support system for anyone to have...I feel sooo lucky......Maz you are an inspiration and I log on hoping to have some of your words of wisdom and I have had them...thank you! I don't feel offended in any way at all - just supported and encouraged to do what I have to do.....I can't thank you all enough.....I will update you tomorrow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I hope things went well for you today Shirel! It's very easy for us to talk about being assertive and sticking to your guns but I know I'd have to really gather all my courage to actually do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Oh gosh, I have just logged on and read all 4 pages of posts, wow what a wealth of experience we hold between us. I too am a non confrontational person and would find this situation very harrowing, but I was dying to find the outcome, have you been out to buy the lockable box or not??? Can't wait to see what was said, I am sending you all my very best wishes for a speedy end to this incident, you sound a fab 'boss' and I think the rest of the staff seem to realise this. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hellloooooo everyone...at the end of a harrowing day I have found time to post......I had to wait until we could have privacy to talk to my colleague, which meant after the session at 3.30pm and......I am very proud of myself....she was, at the start quite abrupt and argumentative but I remained calm and stated that I would not be changing how we done things and that she couldn't take the records home again. We had a frank discussion about how she hates the way things have gone in early years education, (I listened) she thinks it is ridiculous that you need a degree to run a setting (basically slated all the studying I have done).....and lots of anti-EYFS chat followed.....I stood up for it all, calmly and with confidence (that is what the degree/higher education experience has, I believe, given me, confidence) and she basically said I was good at talking the talk several times..... I had to correct her and say that I believe in what we are doing and it was not all about Ofsted....I don't think she really believes that...but the outcome of the whole meeting was that I said she needed to try to cut down on the work she done and she said she would find this very difficult, but would try....she is a knowledgeable lady who works really hard to update her children's files correctly and I told her I admired that and I valued the role she plays with the children.....she is very good with them......and so eventually she said was she is going to try to adapt but is not positive or happy about it....but...she will try....what more can I ask for.. thanks to the advice and support from here, I had a sleepless night and worrying day but when the time came I held my own and was remarkably in control.....we had a laugh at the end about how different we all are and it felt good, she is a lovely lady who has issues with all the changes in early years ....I guess we have all had our moans...for me, I feel in a good place with the EYFS and the systems we have in place...I know Ofsted is a constant pain, and the government don't really recognise how fabulous we all are....but I bet most of us LOVE what we do.....and thanks to this forum I have been able to jump over a hurdle today.....and learn from the whole experience.... T H A N K Y O U A L L! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_79 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Well done, Shirel. Hope everything continues smoothly on this front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8282 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Well done, And I think you've summed up beautifully how many of us feel working in early years. xxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 What a great outcome - I am genuinely thrilled for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Shirel - WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should be very proud of yourself, you handled a tricky and potentially difficult situation with great professionalism and dignity and I think we've all learned something from your experience. Thanks for sharing. Nona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_12960 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Shirel, you have described so clearly the emotions that so many of us go through when trying to do our very best for our settings. Well done you for taking the bull by the horns on this one. I am sure it has been a very difficult few days for you, but your anxiety is just a clear sign of how passionate you are about the service you deliver...to parents ..to the children..and in supporting your staff. Well done you!! (And Thank God for this forum!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Shirel, you're a star! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1195 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 You took the words right out of my mouth Maz Well done Shirel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Shirel - I take my purple hat off!!!!! STAR!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Well done Shirel I'm so glad that all ended well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_705 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 She's not a friend of the previous administrator is she - judging by some of her comments! Way to go! Handled like the true professional you are! Congratulations and no doubt you'll get a good night's sleep tonight, have a glass of something warming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Good luck with it...............................and please, please, stick to your guns on this. As to her request/demand that you buy a lockable cabinet to transport the files, I think it's simply laughable and really flouting your authority. If she is truly not able to complete these files at the setting, and IF you couldn't bear to part with her ( though I'd be asking why you couldn't.......she sounds rather difficult to deal with!), then how about suggesting she doesn't complete them at all, but they are shared out between the other staff instead....and she is given another job to do instead, one that can only be done in-house?? She might decide to leave, but she might decide she CAN do them at the setting after all though??? oh, and just a small, sad postscript that might help to back you up, re safeguarding.............it seems there has been yet another child protection issue at a setting in Wales.........resulting in the setting being closed while investigations are carried out.Surely she doesn't ever wnat safeguarding to be compromised and therefore can see the wisdom of doing the work, with colleagues, in the setting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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