Guest Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 We are registered for 24 children per session in a church hall, but after having extra cupboard space built (three years ago now) we feel it is too much for safety reasons etc. However, although we have asked three committees now to check it (and we have never had real reason before) it has never been done. This year we have had 20 children from Jan on three of our 5 sessions and I am concerned that someone new coming in might argue that registration number. So can we measure it ourselves, do we have to call in local authorities or is it the dreaded Mrs O (who inspected last year with no comment but she came in on one of the low sessions!) Thanks Rachel
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 No idea if your measurements can count as the official ones, but it might give you an idea of number of children you should be having at a session.
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 We are in a massive church hall with an additional room and are registered for 25 per day. even though we could easily accommodate more space wise. I have always understood the reasons for this number were the amount of toilets and hand basins we had. At the time Ofsted took over we had only 3 toilets (+ one disabled for staffs use) So were told we could have 1 toilet for every 10 children but as we also had access to an additional mens toilet we could have 25. To be honest this was so many years ago that it has probably changed now.
Guest Posted March 31, 2010 Posted March 31, 2010 We are in a massive church hall with an additional room and are registered for 25 per day. even though we could easily accommodate more space wise. I have always understood the reasons for this number were the amount of toilets and hand basins we had. At the time Ofsted took over we had only 3 toilets (+ one disabled for staffs use) So were told we could have 1 toilet for every 10 children but as we also had access to an additional mens toilet we could have 25. To be honest this was so many years ago that it has probably changed now. OK forgot the toilet issue, we have one disabled toilet with sink, one ladies toilet with two sinks and one gents toilet, with toilet, two different height urinals and a sink, but surely it should also be down to the available space per child in the main room? Rachel
AnonyMouse_8623 Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 OK forgot the toilet issue, we have one disabled toilet with sink, one ladies toilet with two sinks and one gents toilet, with toilet, two different height urinals and a sink, but surely it should also be down to the available space per child in the main room?Rachel Hi Rachel. We are registered for 25 children too (although only usually go to 24 in case of emergency placement) and I feel that is too many for the size of the room. Throw in 3 adults, 2/3 students and a parent/helper and we're full to bursting. I don't actually know whether the amount of children allowed is dependent on the exact measurements of the room (that's another thing....we only have 1 room!!). I know the toilet thing is taken into account too. I'd appreciate you letting me know if you find an answer to your query. Good luck!
Guest Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 As far as I am aware the number of children yo can have at any one time IS dependent on the room size, check out the Statutory Framework for EYFS page 35. Years ago, when it was good old Social Services doing the registration they used to come out, measure and tell you how many children you could have. Now I believe you do the measuring yourself, and send the measurements and calculations to Ofsted. I think this may also be classed as a variation in registration if you want to reduce numbers. You could always give Ofsted a call to ask, or I'm sure someone will come along soon with the correct answer!
AnonyMouse_2418 Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 Do you not have somebody on your Early Years team who can do the measureing and calculations for you ? When we were given a second room one of the EYATs came out and did the calc for us ( and yes they do look at toilets as well as physical space ) and then we had to submit a variation to OFSTED for them to ratify . Its worth ringing and asking - also you should have told OFSTED about the loss of space when it happened really - the Inspectors don't carry tape measures so wouldn't realise proabably that the room was a bit small for numbers.
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 another view on this! When i was registering my new provision, the Ofsted inspector who came out to look at it told me it was entirely up to me how many children we took.She said it was down to common sense and we agreed to register for 24, but in fact, we choose to limit it to 20. I think if YOU believe your room is too small with the new storage unit in there, then you're probably right!
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 surely the numbers you take in is up to you as the provider.. just because you are registered for a certain amount does not mean you have to take in that many.. I always took it to be the maximum we were allowed.. but if we chose to take less per session that that was our decision. We were registered for 20, ( 2 toilets issue) but usually took 18 as a maximum.. occasionally 16 .. this allowed our staffing ratios to work to best advantage and in our case actually made the difference between breaking even and making a loss.. as the extra staff for the additional 2 children was not covered by their income.. we certainly always filled up all sessions to 16 before adding any more children due to financial implications.. ( we worked with minimum of 3 staff at all times) no one ever questioned it, committee were not an issue, as long as we broke even they were happy... It also allowed us to have a few emergency places for older children who moved into the area at a time when they would normally not get a place anywhere easily and for our local refuge which often needed short notice places... Inge
AnonyMouse_21338 Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 is this any help ? http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/83976
AnonyMouse_11962 Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 I have done this recently, we have only 2 toilets but were registered for 15, at an inspectors suggestion I measured the room and asked for 20 which has been granted. I discounted lobby area and bathroom and main bits of furniture then its 2.5 m sq per under 3 and 2.3 m sq per over 3. I asked for 20 with max of 4 under 3s and this requires at least 46.8 m sq . We have 48 m sq.
Guest Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Up until our last Ofsted visit we were registered for 24 children per session. When she queried our intake of children, we replied that we were full on every session and had recently opened up on one afternoon to enable us to keep up with the intake. The inspector then asked for a tape measure and happily went round our Village Hall and measured our space (we have a main hall, and side room) and deemed it okay to up our intake to 26 children!
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