AnonyMouse_8466 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Its official, we can not charge for snack, registration, uniform - unless the children do not recieve government funding!!! And I had it confirmed that I can make a charge for snack (provided I allow parents to bring in their own snack instead), a registration fee for children who are accessing more than their 15 hour entitlement, and for uniform provided it is voluntary and not compulsory. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 apparently free is free.......... I think this is the 'mantra' needed. Parents who choose to access the funding for their child should be able to do just that - send their child for 15 hours a week (or whatever hours are offered in different areas!) with no cost whatsoever. We have parents who happily pay for time over and above free entitlement and also have those who for various reasons only want what is free. We have never charged a registration fee or asked for any voluntary contributions for anything. We do have logo sweatshirts available if the parents want them but not compulsory. We always get given sweatshirts when children leave and these are on offer at a vastly reduced cost for anyone who wants them - we used to offer them as 'free help yourself' but parents were reluctant to take as they saw it as a handout. Is it only me who is a little concerned about perhaps differentiating between funded and non funded children? Two years olds paying maybe a registration fee and for snack and funded children not being charged. I see the parents of unfunded children as financially supporting our setting - they pay above the amount we get for funded children- they 'choose us' and I just can't quite get my head round applying any charges over and above the fees they pay - but then again it is early on a Sunday morning and maybe (probably!) I have lost the plot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_25331 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Is this not just a way to close any loopholes? If the c of p allowed a registration fee/charge for uniform then unfortunately there would be setting who might exploit this and charge excessive compulsory charges which in effect might make the free entitlement unaccessible to some families. If I was asked to pay a deposit/registration of £50 I would have to thnk..... especially when I wasn't working and my children were little. I really had read this as a way to stop this kind of practice .... rather than a 'free is free' statement. Uniforms as well could be exploited, and overcharged. My children's school take the children on trips and can only ask for a voluntary contribution - however they do sometimes remind parents that they have not paid their VOLUNTARY contributions. I don't see why we can't do similar... perhaps on the registration form include a section:- I would like to make a contribution of £10 towards administration costs. I understand that this is a voluntary contribution that will assist the group in meeting it's costs. We have an optional uniform but nearly every child has purchased it (we also sell second hand items) and if we have a special event then we ask every one to wear them and just pop on a spare to anyone who turns up in normal clothes. It is difficult I know, but I can undesrtand the background behind this thinking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I really had read this as a way to stop this kind of practice .... rather than a 'free is free' statement. Perhaps part of the problem is that the funded places are 'packaged' at Government and local level as 'Free places for all 3 and 4 years old' - there is a huge implication therefore that parents do not have to pay anything. When they arrive at a setting to find that there might be a registration charge/snack charge/uniform available (at a cost) if they wish then all of a sudden the 'free' offer isn't quite what it appeared and at this point some children are 'lost' before they start. For families in real need (and in some cases these are the very children who would particularly benefit from attending an early years setting) any cost at all can be prohibitive and then that defeats the overall objective of trying to ensure children access provision available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Well said Geraldine i totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Does anyone know if the maintained nurseries give free uniform? All the nurseries in my area wear a uniform and I can't imagine the parents haven't had to pay for them I feel a phone call being made tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I have already asked ours and have been told we cannot charge an administration fee.... all i keep getting told if free is free and you are not allowed to charge for anything... we use to charge a £10 fee which also covered their book bag and reserved them a place and helped us pay for all the printing and paper that it takes to print everything...i have been told we cannot charge this......... it all just seems so wrong!!!!!!!! Of course you can still charge your 2 year olds which is what we do, we only ever get a one or two children who start just as their funding starts too, so we can charge the younger ones registration fees etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 When they arrive at a setting to find that there might be a registration charge/snack charge/uniform available (at a cost) if they wish then all of a sudden the 'free' offer isn't quite what it appeared and at this point some children are 'lost' before they start. Clearly no child will 'arrive' at a setting only to find there are hidden charges though. Every group makes its fee structure and charging arrangements clear to families before the child is registered with the group. As you say Geraldine - if the family knows there is a neighbouring group that is offering the 15 hours without asking parents to make any voluntary contributions and the quality of provision is equal then they are very likely to vote with their feet and choose the other setting. However if these 'charges' are genuinely voluntary then they can always choose not to pay them. If they aren't genuinely voluntary then they should complain to their Local Authority who will investigate. Our Local Authority has taken on board that several of the larger providers were not ready to provide the 15 hours free from September, and have therefore extended the deadline for it being completely free to April 2011 when our Single Funding Formula will come into effect. Otherwise they feared that settings would withdraw from the NEG and the LA might be unable to offer every parent of an eligible child their 15 hours free. I was ready and committed to making the 15 hours entirely free, and had resigned myself to losing money for the next two terms. Therefore, reluctantly for two terms I will be asking parents for a voluntary donation to cover the shortfall between the funding and hourly fees - I consulted parents and everyone said I should charge this fee in order to keep the group afloat until April when the level of funding will increase and will (almost) cover our hourly fees. I console myself with the fact that parents will be paying less than half what I charged previously for the extra unfunded half hour, and the fact that other groups will probably be charging much more than I am. I haven't raised my fees significantly for the last couple of years because I could only see this making the shortfall between funding and fees (and therefore my losses) even greater. It is laughable to think that I might be accused of making a quick buck at the expense of my parents by inflating the price of uniform, making a huge registration fee or charging luxury prices for economy snacks. I can only hope that our Single Funding Formula will bring about some parity between funding and fees so that I can at least break even - failing that I'm really not sure what the future holds. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Clearly no child will 'arrive' at a setting only to find there are hidden charges though. Every group makes its fee structure and charging arrangements clear to families before the child is registered with the group. Sorry my post was maybe rather ambiguous - I meant when they 'arrive' to view the setting having picked up on the Government's 'free' early years places. they contact a local setting thinking they can have a free place only to find (possibly) that there are charges of some sort involved and on hearing that they go no further. It could even be at the phone call stage before they 'arrive' to view the setting.It's at that point I was referring to a child being 'lost' Well I know what I meant but not sure I have clarified it now but then I am hot/red/sore - been down at a beach hut today and didn't realise it was quite soo hot - oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Ouch! I hope you're not too sunburned! I take your point entirely - it will be down to the group concerned to make a good enough argument I guess. I wonder if parents will be sufficiently well informed to know what their entitlement actually is - I know our Local Authority is worried that parents might not fully understand what the 15 hour flexible entitlement actually is. I think the key will be keeping to the spirit of the Code of Practice, and not presenting any parent with a compulsory charge in order to access their 'free' entitlement. I have been told that settings do not need to provide a snack as part of this 15 hour entitlement, and are entitled to ask for a contribution towards this - either in the form of money or food. Our Authority will be keeping a list of those groups who are offering the entitlement free of charge to parents, and which ones are asking for a contribution of some kind. My advice to any parent I speak to at the moment is to contact the LA or family information service to arm themselves with as much information as they can about who is offering what, and where. If one of my parents doesn't wish to pay the voluntary donation then I will have to accept it, and the financial loss that this would incur. If I decide to ask for a donation for snack after April and a parent refused to pay or to provide their own snack then I would refer them back to the Local Authority to find a setting that could meet their needs. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19920 Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 we have been told that we cannot charge any monies at all not even admin fee- which is what we were dong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 As most parent's register their child with us at 2, we charge a £25 admin fee. This has never been a problem as all the local groups charge a fee of about this amount. Parent's need to pay something otherwise we will all go bust ! Providing the three hours free from September will mean we will be down £2 a child as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Hello all As far as we are aware we can charge a voluntary registration fee (most of the children who apply are under the age of 3 anyway) and we are in the process of ordering t-shirts for the children which will be voluntary but parents will have to pay for them. We do have a meeting with early years team on monday so will discuss if further with them. Bec x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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