How Would You Change The Eyfs

[Guest jenpercy]

OK Here's your chance. As soon as this is looking interesting I will email link to Clare Tickell from Action for Children who is in charge of the review.

 

The scope of the review is not only on what should children be achieving at what stage - but also includes "should all settings have to do the same - and hence by implication, the whole method of observing and recording is up for discussion.

[Guest heleng]

I would like to see the ratio's in Reception changed so they are more in line with either Nursery and other EYFS settings.

[Guest]

yes I absolutely agree as it can be very difficult to have free flow indoor/outdoors otherwise. I think it should be much clearer about how much evidence needs to be collected and the formats. Can't think of anything else at the moment but I am sure I will!

[AnonyMouse_25084]

I agree with both comments so far.

 

I just want to add that I really like the EYFS and love the flexibility to deliver learning through play, for children to initiate their own learning and for adults to support children at their own individual level. I think that the ELGs on the whole are realistic. However, don't feel that we should feel under pressure to justify why boys writing achievement is lower than girls - and that it should be expected that some boys (and some girls) are not developmentally ready.

 

I am equally interested in the changes to the National Curriculum, I am deeply unset that the new Primary Curriclum has been dropped. I thought it offered a great link between the EYFS and the rest of the school. I hope that whatever comes into places allows settings the flexibility to offer key stage 1 classes a less formal structure to support the transition from EYFS into key stage 1 more.

[AnonyMouse_11414]

I think there needs to be more consistency in preschool planning. All setting managers /supervisors attending the eyfs training and yet nothing was consistant and when speaking to other settings it appears that everyone is doing something entirely different some with horrendous amounts of paperwork. Is it really needed? and can the paperwork be cut down in order for us to actually do the job we went into childcare for....... 'Playing with the children'.

They are assessed enough at school , we were not assessed at preschool and have survived to tell the the tale!!!.

I agree that there should be some form of assessment to identify early SEN issues but the papaerwork over does the actual enjoyment of playing with the children.

[Guest jenpercy]

Well i started this topic - so. As an an out of school setting the EYFS has caused us a lot of grief. our children's schools been totally uninterested in co-operating over exchange of information. a year after the introduction of the EYFS, we got a lot of 5 year old children starting with us. The schools wre totally bemused to be told (by us) that they were supposed to be sharing information. The responses ranged from ignoring our letters, to offering to tell us what the EYFS was (but not to share information on children to asking us what did we want to know, and would we pleas ask OFSTED what they were supposed to tell us. We were told that the info would not be available until the end of the summer term as the teacher would not have written it up until then. I have resorted to pleading with the school that we would fail our OFSTED if they didn't share something (anything with us!) Eventually one of our schools gave us (once) some info but they have not been at all interested in what we know about their children, well we only have some of them for 45 minutes to under2 hours a day, during which time, we have to set up the equipment and also feed them.

 

we were also told that we needed to have next steps for all children - although as a free choice setting, the children did not have to ever do any of the stuff that we planned for them.

 

AND in addition to this, because we are a childcare setting which takes children from 4 for at least 2 hours a day, we have to be EYFS registered and provide the EYFS for all chidren, whilst our competitors, providing childcare for 9 and a half hours a day in a leisure centre, does not. They are allowed to say that they are training these 4-year olds in sports, even though the amount of time that the children don't do sports every day is more than the time our 4 year ods spend with us after school. they don't even have to register at all if they don't want to. And if you register on the voluntary register, or for that matter on the compulsory register, taking children of 6 and under 8, you don't even have an Inspection Report, other than a brief note asying that the conditions of registration are met or not met. Let's have a Level Playing field here

[Guest]

We have njoyed the freedom of being able to 'play' Yes having a class of 30 just with a TA is hard to have good free flo so another adult would be ideal rather than smaller class sizes. The profile is our bug bear that does really need to be re written teh PRSN points are so much easier to achieve than the CLL ones and there are often 2/3 points to observe to achieve say knowing sounds adn anems of letters is one point of the profile which is quite hard yet in the PRSN they can count is a point or count 6 objects is one point.

[Guest]

I think it should be much clearer about how much evidence needs to be collected and the formats.

 

The problem with having a set amount that needs to be collected it always turns out to be far too much to be reasonable, and it tends to apply 'across the board' even to places where it is unfeasible and ridiculous to expect evidence collection on such a large scale. Also usually at least 60% of people involved will hate the format that they are now being forced to use, even if it has been developed through careful consultation with EYFS providers.

 

I guess no matter what they do they will never please all of the people all of the time, and in fact will struggle to please some of the people some of the time!

[AnonyMouse_1999]

I REALLY REALLY hope that the issue of ratios will be given serious consideration.

 

If a 4 yr old needs to be in a ratio of 1:8 then surely this should apply irrespective of the type of setting a child attends.

 

I have said before and say again I lie awake at night worrying about some of our summer born children off to school in September. They are going from a preschool with a ratio of 1:8. They are moving to a vastly bigger physical environment and to a ratio of 1:30 or possibly a class where there is a TA too.

 

I still don't understand why they have to go to school the September after their fourth birthday when the legal school starting age has not changed (as far as I know!)

 

 

Overall, the EYFS has been a positive move in my opinion but it has strong similarities to what I was doing at the start of my career over 30 years ago!

 

Dare I also mention OFSTED?! The outcome of an inspection should not depend on which inspector carries it out and their personal likes/dislikes. My own experience is that aspects one inspector may deem to be good practice may be criticised by another - there surely ought to be some consistency?

 

According to the EYFS guidance the only compulsory assessment is the EY profile completed at the end of reception and yet I don't know of any early years setting that does not have some form of learning journey and 'evidence' of children's documented progress seems expected by OFSTED

[AnonyMouse_75]

Is it me or are the welfare requirements quite brief and vague compared to the old national standards? which was set out in what I thought was a logical way and was clear about what was required.

 

what also concerns me is and if you look at the amount of paperwork in the EYFS packs how much is is devoted to the child's education and compared to the welfare requirements, now I know that children's learning is important and Im not disputing the need for guidance in delivering early years education, but I get the feeling that the child's care is being pushed to the side for education what is the priority for an under 5?

 

can you imagine ....... "sorry I didn't have time to change your child's nappy 'cus I was doing paperwork".

[Guest]

I think ratios should definitely be looked at as 1:30 is just ridiculous. In fact, 2:30 is almost as ridiculous - how are adults supposed to support play, etc, without adult support?!

 

Also, I think out of school clubs should be exempt - this stems from my irritation that they are also subject to Ofsted inspections. Children need to chill out after school, and just have fun in a safe, happy environment - not have to do certain activities (or be moved on in their learning) to satisfy Ofsted or EYFS. Young children especially are very tired after a day at school - they need care and the opportunity to do what they want (well, within reason obviously!) - not yet more structured learning activities! Also, the sharing of info is a bit pointless, in my opinion, and just adds to the workload of the out of school club staff.

 

But maybe that's just me!!

[Guest jenpercy]

I think ratios should definitely be looked at as 1:30 is just ridiculous. In fact, 2:30 is almost as ridiculous - how are adults supposed to support play, etc, without adult support?!

 

Also, I think out of school clubs should be exempt - this stems from my irritation that they are also subject to Ofsted inspections. Children need to chill out after school, and just have fun in a safe, happy environment - not have to do certain activities (or be moved on in their learning) to satisfy Ofsted or EYFS. Young children especially are very tired after a day at school - they need care and the opportunity to do what they want (well, within reason obviously!) - not yet more structured learning activities! Also, the sharing of info is a bit pointless, in my opinion, and just adds to the workload of the out of school club staff.

 

But maybe that's just me!!

 

No that's not just you. Sharing information does not work. We can't share info about our holiday children because we never know when they are coming with enough notice to communicate with schools. And for after school we have had to nag schools to get wany info - if at all, then they just don't want to know any info from us. Understandable really as we see them so little, and they are doing such differnet things with us. The fact that we can only get satisfactory after trying hard to communicate also rankles!!

 

I would be perfectly happy, in fact MUCH happier than at present if the schools just involved us with children who were underachieving for whatever reason, and left us to get on. I do feel strongly that the emphasis on EYFS being so strong, it tends to move focus away from older children who may, in fact need more attention. We are seeing children through the important transition to secondary school, for example.

[Guest]

Ratios definately a big issue 1:13 v 1:8 is enough of a challenge never mind 1:30, which is downright ridiculous.

OFSTED inspections is another area that has massive differences between the sectors - despite us all having to work towards the same EYFS document I feel school nurseries are not judged in the same way private settings are judged. Parents do not have equatable reports to read when comparing and choosing between nurseries of the two types.

[AnonyMouse_8466]

I haven't compared school nurseries and private settings' inspection reports, nsunshine. How do they differ?

 

Maz

[AnonyMouse_11396]

Totally agree about the ratios in a Foundation/Reception class where is the duty of care then when a just four year old needs support say in the toilet, or anywhere actually and oops sorry there is nobody there for them. Did they suddenly grow up overnight and have now got to muddle through on their own.

I am also yet to be convinced that children going to school the term after their fourth birthday is the right way forward. Young children need time and space to develop, not just jump on the travellator to adulthood.

[Guest]

For me if a setting has good practice- in the main- the requirements of the EYFS will be met.

 

and there we have it- is my good practice the same as your good practice? I believe we need the statutory requirements in respect of keeping the children safe.

 

But do we really need the planning and the observations and the evidence of development linked to this acronym that acronym and the stages of development? I don't believe so.

 

As a parent when I choose my setting I choose the one I believe offers my child the "best" in my opinion. And as we all know from our many years of experience between us- one parents "best" is another parents not so best. If I want a setting that provides reams of evidence of development and progress and detailed plans of each of my child's activities with next steps and evaluations I'll choose that one. If I want a setting that ensures my child is happy and secure but with no evidence of progression other than I as her parent can see- then I'll choose that one!

 

The EYFS and Ofsted and FSP and SATS and even the bloomin Apgar test send our children on a learning journey that is littered with goals, expectations and milestones to be reached and smashed- whilst ensuring that parents perpetuate and join the "certificate and written proof of success" route to happiness and personal achievements.

 

The EYFS whilst promoting "the individual" strips us of the time/energy and freedom to really nurture the individual as we struggle to evidence formally each individuals progress.

 

It removes my individual right as a parent to opt for my preferred choice of "what happens in a day" it removes my right as a practitioner to practice in a way i believe is best for my setting.

 

How can we possibly evolve and develop education for individuals whilst we are constrained by rules and regulations dictating our practice and our ideals. Would we have had the likes of Montessori, Froebel, Steiner, Reggio, and the others if they had been restricted and restrained by a dictate of: "This is outstanding and if it aint like this it aint no good"? I doubt it.

[AnonyMouse_73]

I haven't compared school nurseries and private settings' inspection reports, nsunshine. How do they differ?

 

Maz

 

 

Hi Maz

 

This is just my perception, Im sure others may differ.

 

The ofsted inspections for schools and PVI settings are very different, as are the SEFs. For schools, a lot is written under the context of the whole school (eg how well does the school safeguard child.. or words to that effect anyway)..this would refer to the whole school and would include the EYFS. There is a separate section on EYFS in schools inspections and they tend to be very focused on outcomes.. they will usually start with where the chidlren are on entry (compared to national 'averages'....whatever they are)...this is why you will see so many teachers here asking about tracking progress..starting points and so forth. The 'amount' of progress that is made and whether or not this is the 'right' amount, is quite key.

 

On the other hand, you don't often see in school reports lots of references to welfare requirements.. no mentions of risk assessments, staffing qualifications, nappy changing facilities or hand washing routines for example.

 

It would be quite interesting to follow the articles Helen wrote about OFSTED in PVIs and childminders with school ones wouldn't it? SO that we could see where there is common ground and where the key differences actually lie.

[AnonyMouse_4869]

As a Reception Teacher, I have to agree that the ratio's are something that is my bug bear. I know that I can't meet individuals' needs when there is just me in a classroom of 30. Thank goodnes for my TA, but this still isn't enough. (I'm doing a group activity, she is supporting play, little Harry wets himself and she goes to deal with him, other children are left unsupported) I am currently training an NVQ student....young, inexperienced. I only have time to do this by example but I know she needs to be taught directly how to support play and challenge children (but I have a class of 30 to teach!). She moves to level 3 in september but is not (in my opinion) the quality of practitioner that having a level 3 demands.

However, if the adult:child ratio within Reception is increased then there needs to be a qualification put onto those other adults. Not whoever the head can find to support, even if they have only ever worked with children in KS2.

Some of the summer born children I have taught needed to stay in Nursery for the lower adult:child ratio, but had to come to school..I felt I was doing them an injustice.

 

The EYProfile is flawed, I agree that scale point for NLC are far easier to achieve than KUW or LSL.

I found the EYProfile assessments manageable but then my LA seemed to know what they were talking about at the beginning of the year and followed this through to the end. Not expecting reams of evidence but instead listening to what i knew about the children (during moderation).

 

I like that I can go with any route for themes and have skills to teach rather than 'information', this allows me to follow interests and makes learning more meaningful. I think the ELG's are manageable.

I wish the new curriculum had come into force for KS1 & 2, but instead we are tweaking what we already do in the hope that it's ok.

 

As yet I haven't gone through OfSTED, thats this years issue, so I can't comment from a teachers point of view.

 

I agree that children in ASC should not be made to continue 'learning', although we all know that they will be whether it is planned for or not. Let the children relax at the end of the day as they would when they go home from school with a parent....why is it any different just because their parents are working or whatever, are we going to start telling parents in their homes that they have to offer learning opportunities based on childrens next steps...no I don't think so, so leave the after school clubs alone.

[AnonyMouse_4869]

And also, I was asked to analyse data for my children progress in reading, writing and PSRN. Expected progress was 3-5 scale points. Then I'm being asked why some children haven't made good progress in an area. Not bothered that the child was poor socially when they came in and has moved on from 0 to 8 in that scale!

[Guest jayr]

Hi to all, as an out of school care club the EYFS is (if we let it ) an extension to the school day for the children in their early years.

 

Planning for next steps just does not work for our setting because children do not attend full time.

By the time they are in our setting again the have moved on.

One little boy came to us for one day for 15 mins once a week for 2 weeks. I rang ofsted to ask if we should implement EYFS for this child the answer was,yes! By the time he had had a drink we are also getting the room ready for the school day the session is over. I was told you can do an obs in that time, I know I am good but wonder woman, I don't think so.

I would like to see the EYFS stop at the end of the school day.

 

Obs takes the staff away from what the children want most, playing with them! You cannot expect staff to complete obs in their own time at home.

 

 

We would still have to show that we plan for activities.

I would still do a scrapbook taking pictures of the children doing activities etc.

 

 

I hope someone see sense, children in the EYFS who have had a full day at school,all they want is to do is just chill.

 

P.S What about children who go home at 3.30?

 

THEY JUST GO HOME!

 

All the best to everyone.

 

Jayr