AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 I really think it's unfair to expect us to be qualified to the 'nth degree and then allowing parents to tell us what we can and can't do. I know it works for some, and schools have their boards of governors and that seems to work ok, but this seems different somehow
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Posted October 1, 2010 Thanks be to everything real or imaginary that I have some idea. How the heck a parent off the street (so to speak) manages I'll never know. There has to be another way, or those who Govern us should actually start to govern and not just tell us when we're not doing it right.
AnonyMouse_25331 Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 been following this thread with interest - and a slight nervousness..... Our Secretary is employed for 2 lunch hours per week.... and the chair now wants to employ the treasurer for 1 hour per week. Obviously reading this thread I'm very worried about this although the psla sent me this... I would recommend that you contact the Charity Commission, as the committee may need to request authority from the Charity Commission for the Treasurer to be employed to work for the pre-school, because of the potential conflict of interest it will create for them as a trustee (committee member). Further information is available in the Charity Commission guidance on managing conflicts of interest for trustees, which is available to read at: www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Charity_requirements_guidance/Charity_governance/Good_governance/conflicts.aspx#1. The Charity Commission explain that this is because trustees have a duty to act in the best interest of the charity that they serve. In employing a trustee to work for the charity, there is the potential for a conflict to arise between the best interests of the charity and their own personal interests in the terms and conditions of their employment with the charity and the financial benefit they would receive from the charity through their wages. The Charity Commission will usually consider requests on a case by case basis, to ensure that the decision to employ the trustee are in the best interests of the charity. They may want the charity to demonstrate that the trustee had no involvement in the creation, recruitment and appointment for the post and that they have put procedures in place for effectively managing the conflict of interests that could arise from their employment. This would usually entail the trustee removing themselves from discussion and voting on any matters relating to employment or staff terms and conditions. In practice, this could make it difficult for them to hold an officer role, as they may not be able to fulfill all aspects of the roles effectively if they have to abstain from meetings about employment and staffing issues. You will also need to keep in mind that the quorum for committee meetings will be affected when they remove from the meeting for these matters. But to complicate matters, I said that you are not allowed to pay yourself, so the treasurer wouldn't be able to do her own wages! makes sense to me, but the Chair was asked for my proof.... and I can't find anything! Very worried that the committee is just going to go ahead and do this anyway - or is it best to let them and just claim ignorance???? Anyone have any more info? Sorry to steal your post but it is all connected..
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) UGH - just when I thought I'd got my head round it!!! The PSLA constitution says that staff can be committee members as long as they are in the minority and don't have any say in conflict of interest decisions. I spoke to a helpful lady at the PSLA one day last week and she said it was ok Edited October 4, 2010 by Cait
Guest Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 We have member of staff who used to be Treasurer and is now employed as a book-keeper and admin (on top of working as staff member within sessions-she has nvq3) for set amount of hours per week and I think it may have been Ofsted who said she wasn't allowed to do her own wages, hope that helps- speak to O or ring PSLA and see what either say, if anything
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 5, 2010 Author Posted October 5, 2010 Yes, you can ask for authorisation. We were doing it without said authorisation, although to compound matters the previous chair hadnt let them know we had adopted the 2008 constitution. Its all in hand though and hopefully they will see were working for the playgroups best interests. Off to playgroup now to hear the latest committee recruitment. Fingers crossed!!
Guest Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Just caught up with this thread. Poor you, what a nightmare, and I hope that you have more parents coming forward and that you manage to resolve the issues without repercussions. Thanks for linking to the governance documents too. They look good and professional and scary ... and of course, could just be the straw that breaks the camel's back for most of us committee run places that are already overloaded or overwhelmed or both. Even audits of skills, that we would love to do as trustees, aren't all that practical when you are relying on the goodwill of parents coming forward, almost all of whom have small children or in general they wouldn't stick around. I've been on committee since 2002 and sometimes feel like we're doing well, but it never lasts long before I discover a whole raft of stuff that it would be good to have in place but we don't ... and then it takes forever to sort it because there's always something else needing doing. thinking of you.
Guest Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 So where do we stand then...2 childcare qualified committee member being paid to be bank staff to cover holidays and illness (Out of school club, charity, committee run)??? I may have to become chair next month as our current one wants to stand down (she was supposed to be standing down) and Im one those that does cover. Just not enough staff and or/committee with relevant experience!!
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 Looks like it's me as Chair, a parent as treasurer, another as secretary and another as a committee member and another member of staff on ours!!
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 The way I have understood it is: )Providing you have changed your constitution to say so) Then you may have members of staff on your committee BUT they may not hold the post of officer and may not vote on staff related issues? Do I have it wrong on the officer thing then Cait? How would you vote on staff matters without the Chair's vote? Surely if you did vote on staff matters/issues it would be a conflict of interest? Sorry did not mean 20 questions just curious and a little confused now!! If you are Chair who do the staff go to with any grievances about you? This whole thing makes my headache to be honest and as grateful as I am to the parent that has taken on the role of chair for us for (hopefully) the next couple of years, she is a solicitor and knows nothing at all about EY. I do think it is about time the whole thing of committees run by parents was overhauled, quite by whom, I dont know.
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 No-one is willing to have a suitable person interview! If they have grievances they go to one of the two deputy managers. It's all an absolute nightmare. PSLA said we could have officer roles but not vote if the vote conflicted with our interests or whatever
Guest Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 i have a chair but she didnt want to be suitable person so ofsted said she could be chair but the manager could have the suitable person interview and take on that responsibility............... it totally confused me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They said we could have staff on the committee but only as general committee members they couldnt be chair, secretary or treasurer............................it's all soooooooooooooo confusing..
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 it seems to depend on who you speak to at PSLA then - a bit like Ofsted. Oh for a definitive answer!!!!!
Guest Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 i have a chair but she didnt want to be suitable person so ofsted said she could be chair but the manager could have the suitable person interview and take on that responsibility............... it totally confused me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They said we could have staff on the committee but only as general committee members they couldnt be chair, secretary or treasurer............................it's all soooooooooooooo confusing.. This is absolutely infuriating because I was told the opposite by ... you guessed it, Ofsted. I had a very scary letter via LEA from Ofsted saying we could fail our inspection if I wasn't suitable person (I'm chair). The issue as far as I can see it, is that the chair effectively takes on a lot of the role of the head teacher of the provision, i.e. overseeing how everything is run. The treasurer is doing a school bursar's job, and the secretary a school manager's job. So, 3 jobs all done for free, it's no wonder no one in government wants to change the system.
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 Maybe its because I'm already in the Ofsted system, but I've never had to speak to them as chair. I had a SPI when I became playleader but not for this role. The playleader is the nominated person because she's there all the time and I have a life. The thing that bugs me though is the lack of help for people like us. Yes we have Lawcall and once upon a time the charity commission (!), but really theres no-one to help with those little niggles. Everything just gets so complicated. The official bodies are either too scarey or too inefficent or too varied in their answers. I sometimes despair of ever being told a straight forward answer to a problem.
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Once upon a time the charity commission (!), but really theres no-one to help with those little niggles. Everything just gets so complicated. The official bodies are either too scarey or too inefficent or too varied in their answers.I sometimes despair of ever being told a straight forward answer to a problem. Oh I'm definitely with you on this!
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Hmm, just to throw a spanner in the works I am our nominated person and have never had a chair as the NP. It just doesn't make sense to have them. Most are fairly transient staying /2 years max and never ever how ever good they have been have I had a chair that does the work you do Suzie, I wouldn't expect them to. I'm still very confused about this Chair business Cait. How would you vote on salary issues? You couldn't vote but what would happen if there was a 'tie' in the voting and the chair has the deciding vote?????????????????? I suppose the V/Chair would take over? Sorry not being awkward just thinking out loud.
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Hmm, just to throw a spanner in the works I am our nominated person and have never had a chair as the NP. It just doesn't make sense to have them. Most are fairly transient staying /2 years max and never ever how ever good they have been have I had a chair that does the work you do Suzie, I wouldn't expect them to. I'm still very confused about this Chair business Cait. How would you vote on salary issues? You couldn't vote but what would happen if there was a 'tie' in the voting and the chair has the deciding vote?????????????????? I suppose the V/Chair would take over? Sorry not being awkward just thinking out loud. So you're the nominated person but have no 'chair'? have I understood you right? - hey - I'm happy to not call myself chair - desperately trying to make sense of it all myself!
Guest Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 I darent go down the lines of asking if we can have job share managers with OFSTED!! Where to start? I thought both the manager and the chair had to have suitable person interview (ridiculous for chair who may have no childcare experience!). No wonder we cant get a manager OFSTED are frightening everyone off!!....staff and committee!
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