Jump to content
Home
Forum
Articles
About Us
Tapestry
This is the EYFS Staging Site ×

15 Hrs


AnonyMouse_11396

Recommended Posts

Sorry let me re word my post.....the child is currently doing 15hours over 5 days so 3 hours a day 9.30 til 12.30 but now the parent needs the child to come from 7.30?? So do you take the amount of funding off the session cost and charge them the rest or do you work out your hourly rate and charge two hours at your hourly rate or do you say they can't do extra hours?? Either way we make a massive loss!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry let me re word my post.....the child is currently doing 15hours over 5 days so 3 hours a day 9.30 til 12.30 but now the parent needs the child to come from 7.30?? So do you take the amount of funding off the session cost and charge them the rest or do you work out your hourly rate and charge two hours at your hourly rate or do you say they can't do extra hours?? Either way we make a massive loss!!

 

Ah right - I understand now! :1b

 

So for these extra hours over and above their 15 hour entitlement - you charge your usual hourly rate.........

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okies thanks got it(i think :huh: )....so long as the 15 hours are completely free any hours they wish to use over the 15 are charged at our hourly rate?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Inge

 

Now I may have this completely wrong but I don't think that works 'now' - my understanding is that it's 15 hours - so not multiples of 3 hour sessions - does that make any sense?

 

Please someone, anyone - feel free to shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong :blink: xD :lol: xD

 

.I did not say a session... but 3 hours... which was the amount of funded hours being taken originally asked about...

 

it would obviously be up to a total of the 15 hours in a week..taking into consideration max hours allowed funded in a day etc.. with all the rest being paid at the settings rate.

Edited by Inge
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was using the 3 hours as an example as that was the original question.. it would obviously be up to a total of the 15 hours in a week..taking into consideration max hours allowed funded in a day etc.. with all the rest being paid at the settings rate.

 

Apologies Inge - I misunderstood - I did say that I'm nearly ready for that home! :ph34r:xD :lol: xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi I'm glad people are still talking about funding because I was going to start a new thread on funding. I am on the schools Forum with our LA and if you didn't know they are the people who decide how much we get in the way of funding when the Formula is sorted. It is made up of Heads and Governors of schools and with the "guidance" from LA staff the Schools Forum either say yes or no to the way the funding is put together, how the formula is decided and how much it is.

I have been on the schools forum for 3 years now and have come to the conclusion that if we ever want our money to go up we need to take the decisions away from the "schools". When you are competeting for what is not alot of money compared to the schools money we do not have a cats chance in h*** getting the right amount. They cannot see that we are businesses and should be allowed to charge what WE think is the going rate based on being able to make a profit.

I don't want to earn millions but after years of working a nice wage would be a bonus.

I would like to start a campaign that we have administrators in central government that work out how much we should be paid!! and not local government. I cannot see council workers ever giving us a fair share of the pot.

It is one of the most difficult things to make Heads of Senior in fact all heads of schools to make them realise we are not a SCHOOL!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with you Steph (and also in the neighbouring unitary authority) - I am nagging my schools forum rep to give me a breakdown for the early years bit of the dedicated schools grant - I am NOT saying that they are top slicing too much but without this breakdown I don't believe that the powers in central government will take any heed as at present (see other threads about pension payments and funding issues) last letter I had from Sarah Teather basically said that they pay LAs enough. If we were to all ask our LA's for a budget breakdown and the funding matrix for how they spend the top slicing then we are in a better position to lobby central government with "evidence based" call for sufficient funding or if they cannot justify their top slicing percentage lobby them to make some cuts. As funding in my LA hasn't increased in last three years I haven't been able to fund any pay rises for my staff team (98% of my income is early education funding) - I would be v. interested to see breakdown of LA's top slicing to see whether they have also had to endure a pay freeze!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK - having nothing better to do on a sunny Saturday I have been analysing my LA's Dedicated Schools Grant budget (Oh what joy!)

 

If you take the central government guaranteed funding unit amount per child and you multiply it by the number of early years full time equivalent (FTE) children you should get the total early years budget. (Call it A).

 

If you then take the LA Early Years budget total (call it B away from this figure you get the difference (call it C)

 

If you then take C and divide it by A you get the top slice % (Call it D).

 

In my area this equates to 11.11%. or 54p per FTE funded child per hour which is 14% of the base rate paid to providers - without looking into other LAs I don't yet know whether this is reasonable or not.

 

I would be very interested to know what other LAs top slicing percentages are.

 

My next job is to ask my LA for their breakdown of costs for this 11.11% top slicing!

 

I knew that O level maths would come in useful somewhere xD :lol:

Edited by SueJ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Off the top of my head our top slice is 10p per child (FTE) and it is used to pay for administration of the funding. However there might have been an additional amount top sliced previous to that part of the calculations. I don''t have the files to hand so I can't check I'm afraid. Do you have any information as to what the top slicing is put to use doing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know exactly what the top slicing is spent on. This will be my next question to my schools forum rep. My LA has given providers a funding matrix to show how they have arrived at the hourly rate per child they pay us so I think it is only fair that they have the equivalent funding matrix to show show they have arrived at the hour rate per child that they top slice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our basic rate is £3.16 per child per hour. it is made up of 42p premises costs and the rest is wages. they have worked out on 24 children which would mean 4 staff. They work out how many none contact hours is needed to set up per week then its paired down how many hours paperwork what qualifications etc. It is the most difficult way of calculating money and as some of us a re a bit dyslexic when it came to figures they managed to confuse us so much that we didn't query alot of the calculations. Now 5 years down the line we are all a bit more savey with the formula and even thought the base rate did go up 1p for admin!!!! last year for next year they are trying to hurry it through so we don't have time to work out our costs properly.

I would ask that every one who is getting the Free Entitlement look at how their borough arrives at the calculations and see if it reflects the true cost of what it costs them to run their businesses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Well I have had some answers to the questions I am asking and incandescent doesn't even come close !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

In my area top slicing of the dedicated schools grant pays for the following:

 

SEN

Pupil Referral Unit

Behaviour Support

Education Out of School

Support to underperforming ethnic minority groups and bi-lingual learners

School meals

Free school meals eligibility

School admissions

School's Forum

Trade Union Duties

Purchase of Carbon Reduction Commitment Allowances :ph34r:

Contribution to Safe Schools Community Team

Strategic Teachers Pension Arrangements :angry:

Protected Salaries :angry:

Academies LACSEG Contingency

 

With the exception of SEN (and at the moment this is questionnable as there is already an SEN deduction in the early years budget) as a PVI provider I cannot access any of these services - particularly outrageous is that £s are being spent on protected salaries, pension arrangements and trade union duties - services that the PVI sector can only dream of.

 

I am asking my schools forum to justify this global top slicing approach when PVI providers are effectively excluded from these service provisions. I have muted that there should be a mechanism to credit back some of this top slicing to the PVIs - something that I am hoping will be on the next schools forum agenda.

 

Maybe others could start asking their LAs where their top-sliced £s go and whether or not as a provider they can access any of these services.

 

Anyone with me :D ::1a

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well - following a meeting last night the plan is to get as many PVI providers together to put a case to the schools forum - with only a single rep for childminders and a single rep for pvi providers on the forum they stand v. little change of pushing through anything on their own as they would be outvoted by some 20+ school heads, govs etc.

 

In my area the LA are wholly reliant on pvi providers to ensure that they meet their legal duties in respect of sufficiency for the universal funding offer for 3 and 4 year olds let alone the increase in places for funded 2 year olds so we are not without some clout - the time has come to shake the tree - I shall keep you updated on our progress but it is likely to be a bit of a protracted procedure as first we must continue to weedle out of the schools forum actual figures whilst at present they keep trying the smoke and mirrors approach - watch this space

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Rea

Bookstart are still doing the preschool packs (in a fancy red bag not a treasure chest), and ours are going out to settings as we speak. There have been some delays this year. If you have not heard anything, you could contact your early years team and ask abut them.

Details are here

http://www.bookstart.org.uk/bookstart-packs/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mundia, it was a woman from Bookstart/council? at the PLA AGM the year before last who told me we wouldnt be getting them anymore, a decision had been made to give them only to full day care. But I read on the link you gave that I can ask the library, so I'll pop along and ask :1b

Edited by Rea
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mundia, it was a woman from Bookstart/council? at the PLA AGM the year before last who told me we wouldnt be getting them anymore, a decision had been made to give them only to full day care. But I read on the link you gave that I can ask the library, so I'll pop along and ask :1b

 

It is our local library who contact us Rea - good luck - we have ours so I'm sure you should be able to get them :1b

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes we have had ours for a little while. Have to say, not as impressive as in the past, and by getting rid of the treasure box they have cut back on what is on offer, but it is still lovely to have the bags to give to some families. Others just give them straight back - feeling that it is "charitable" and therefore they don't need them and ask me to give them to other families. One family this year gave theirs back because they had the books already (to be fair any family might have had them, they were very popular titles).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. (Privacy Policy)