Guest Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hi, I'm sure this has probably been covered before and I have done a forum search on here and google but am still unsure A nursery near us in Essex has charged a parent top up fees on her 15hrs free entitlement saying the government voucher doesn't cover the nursery cost per hour. She is not happy and came to us for advice. I am in a Preschool so it is a little different I guess but by my understanding the 15 hours were free entitlement. Research seems to show that this is a bit controversial and some areas do charge top up fees and some don't but can anyone help me out for Essex, the council website doesn't give any info on top up fees. I don't have an opinion either way whether charging top up fees is right or wrong but was trying to find out if it's "allowed" for this parent. Can anyone help enlighten me? (please pretty please!) T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_705 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hi My understanding is that the 15 hour entitlement has to be free at the point of delivery and no further charge can be added for that. However, settings can charge for extras that they might provide such as lunch, snack, music sessions, outings etc. I think each LEA should have a code of practice, we certainly had to sign something to say that we would abide by our LEA's code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_28434 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hi Tomberley. I'm not in your area, but we are a nursery and I am near enough 100% sure that No setting regardless of area is allowed to charge top up fees as every child is entitled to 15 hrs free education and if a setting has signed up to accept gov funding that's the deal.We do not get as much money as our fee rate but know we must not charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 must admit when I had a parent ask the same a while ago now I gave her the phone number and name of the person who was in charge of the funding at the LEA and she called them direct.. ( nursery ended up being investigated as it was not allowed in our area at all!) Hopefully someone from Kent will be along soon to help a bit more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Thanks Ladies, am still a little puzzled by it. You seem to be thinking the same as me that it isn't allowed. Still googling to see what I can find but the more I look the murkier it seems to get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm from Kent Inge but I don't think I'm up to date on what goes on in Essex! Anyway as stated above, free must mean free! 15 hours must be totally free. If your parent has misunderstood what is going on that would be understandable for instance I do know that some nurseries/pre-schools in my area open for 15 mins extra per day giving an extra 75 minutes per week and so parents pay that as a top up - could just be a different understanding of what the term top up means. I do know that we were asked to give 15 hours continuous provision free, albeit taken over a number of days before charging any kind of fee, based purely on hours attended, maybe that has been waived now in Kent or a blind eye is being turned by KCC. Fees may be charged for extras as stated above and we can charge for lunch club, although in my case lunch clubs have to make up some of the 15 hours as we are only open to the children for 15 hours per week. Think you really need to clarify with this parent exactly what she has been asked to pay and for what, if it still seems "iffy" telephone Essex CC Management and Information (that's what they call themselves in Kent anyway) and they should be able to put everyone right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm from Kent Inge but I don't think I'm up to date on what goes on in Essex! Well you should be! As others have said, as far as I know - this is a complete 'no, no'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm from Kent Inge but I don't think I'm up to date on what goes on in Essex! well why not! actually had just been doing something else and Kent was involved in the research , so my senior brain was in full swing... good idea to clarify what the top up is for... think some are allowed to charge for snacks... and then a call to the local authority .. we had a written agreement with the LEA as to what we could/ could not charge for and all the rules for receiving the funding... anything like that in your area . if so you would have a copy for your setting.. here the Chairperson had to sign it so it was by chance I even knew about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11653 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm from Essex and you can't charge top up fees!! We all had a meeting about 18months ago with a gentleman from Essex Early Years (in a room with 40 irate women poor thing). And he said categoricaly that the 15 hours was free at the point of delivery, any hours in addition to the 15 could be charged for. We were also told we could no longer charge an admin fee of £10 even though when the child joined they were give free uniform, yet nurseries in my area still charge a top up fee!! Really seems unfair and almost 1 rule for 1 and another for everyone else!! Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 direct gov makes it very clear that the 15 hours is free...you cannot charge for free entitlement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 A few years ago I was given a spotcheck financial audit and was told that top up was, in fact, illegal and I could be liable for a fine if I continued. I was , however, allowed to charge for 'additional services' to help afford the things we offered above and beyond 'standard'nursery provision. I wonder if this what the nursery is charging but calling it the wrong thing. Our addtional services charge covers organic snacks, woodwork, spanish, yoga and zumba lessons, a higher than required staff:child ratio, use of the webcam etc. I do feel that the old system of charging top up was more transparent as parents were clear that the charge was to cover the difference between funding and actual fees, my additional services charge has to be justified to every parent but is essentially top up by another name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8282 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm from Essex and you can't charge top up fees!! We all had a meeting about 18months ago with a gentleman from Essex Early Years (in a room with 40 irate women poor thing). And he said categoricaly that the 15 hours was free at the point of delivery, any hours in addition to the 15 could be charged for. We were also told we could no longer charge an admin fee of £10 even though when the child joined they were give free uniform, yet nurseries in my area still charge a top up fee!! Really seems unfair and almost 1 rule for 1 and another for everyone else!! Kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hi, I'm sure this has probably been covered before and I have done a forum search on here and google but am still unsureA nursery near us in Essex has charged a parent top up fees on her 15hrs free entitlement saying the government voucher doesn't cover the nursery cost per hour. She is not happy and came to us for advice. I am in a Preschool so it is a little different I guess but by my understanding the 15 hours were free entitlement. Research seems to show that this is a bit controversial and some areas do charge top up fees and some don't but can anyone help me out for Essex, the council website doesn't give any info on top up fees. I don't have an opinion either way whether charging top up fees is right or wrong but was trying to find out if it's "allowed" for this parent. Can anyone help enlighten me? (please pretty please!) T Hi I have consulted with a colleague who has provided me with the following information for you, which I hope answers you question. Providers in receipt of this funding sign a Free Early Education Entitlement Contract with Essex County Council. Any breaches of the contract that are reported to Essex County Council are fully investigated. Section 7 of the contract states as follows: 7.1 If THE PROVIDER inappropriately levies or charges in respect of the Free Entitlement, this shall be deemed a breach of contract and THE PROVIDER is obliged to make such repayments as THE COUNCIL directs, to the parent against whom the charge has been levied, within 30 working days. 7.2 If the provision is only open for a 3 hour session, it is permissible to ask for a voluntary contribution towards snacks or one-off activities. However parents/carers must be given the option to provide a snack for their child or to opt out from the one-off activity if they choose not to pay and without any form of recourse i.e. they shouldn’t be treated any differently if they choose to do that. . 7.3 THE PROVIDER can make a charge for additional services. The level of such fees is a private matter for agreement between the provider and the parent/carer and should be stated in advance as part of the provider’s terms and conditions with the parent. Providers must not impose on parents conditions of access to which they must agree in order to take-up their free hours, i.e., parents must not be obligated to purchase additional hours or pay lunch time charges in order to secure free provision (see point 7.1). Parents who choose to take up additional services should not be charged any more for those services than parents of children who are not accessing a free place. Above all, arrangements for charging for additional services should be clear and transparent and provided in writing to parents before the offer of a place is agreed. 7.4 THE PROVIDER can charge for any hours taken outside of the agreed funded segment or for hours over and above the funded entitlement for each child (refer to point 5). 7.5 THE PROVIDER must not charge ‘top up’ fees (the difference between what a provider would normally charge and the funding they receive from the COUNCIL to deliver the Free Entitlement). This also includes compulsory registration fees, uniforms or administration costs. 7.6 THE PROVIDER must not ask parents to pay fees up-front that relate to accessing the Free Entitlement regardless that these might be refunded at a later date. 7.7 THE PROVIDER should ensure that the Free Entitlement is not represented to parents as a monetary subsidy/discount as this funding has no monetary value to parents. Invoices and billing should be clear, transparent and relevant. The invoice should only itemise the additional hours or services accessed that are chargeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Wow thank you Benjamin that is a massive help and makes it clearer. The setting I work at offers the free entitlement as free without any charges or extras etc but this is great for referring to should we be asked for advice again. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts