Guest Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Maybe if when children start we ask the parents for a copy of the two year old check for their children's file completed by the HV, and if they haven't had one we could then advise that we will have to carry this out in the prime areas, once we get to know the child, as it is a statutory requirement. I think as you say Mundia it will need to go in our policies that parents sign up to. :rolleyes:
AnonyMouse_29641 Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 I think as you say Mundia it will need to go in our policies that parents sign up to. :rolleyes: OK...playing Devil's Advocate here, I'm starting to think that there could be a breach of parents' rights here. If parents object in principle to their children being tested, do they have no right to refuse? If we have concerns about a child's development then surely we would bring it to parents' attention. If they refuse to act on our advice, then it's either a safeguarding issue, or within parents' rights to refuse. A few years back I had a child whom, after lots of reading and thought, I thought exhibited several symptoms of Aspergers Syndrome. I suggested to parents that it might be in child's best interest for him to be assessed so that they, I, school, and all who work with him could work in the same way. Parents were adamant that they did not want him labelled. Fair enough too - although I did think they were bonkers at the time, that was their right to refuse. If informed parents don't want their unborn baby tested for genetic anomalies, is that not their right? I am quite sure most parents are more than happy to have their children observed and tested, I know I am, but I also know there are some that aren't, and if they are to be denied quality child care because they won't sign up to the policy, then I think that's a bad thing. Phew! Honey
Guest Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Hello Honey, I can see your point and yes I would advise a parent if I thought there was a problem, but isn't this about early intervention rather than waiting till the child is almost leaving us for school? Maybe the clause would have to be worded ' I give permission for a practitioner to conduct a two year old assessment ' Yes/ No, as I do with photographs . I think I would want it recorded somewhere that a parent had refused .
AnonyMouse_29641 Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Good point DD. Tail covering without exclusion. H
AnonyMouse_22106 Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 we have had a lot of parents refuse speech therapy or help and advice from senco - it can cause a lot of bad feeling too
AnonyMouse_12960 Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 ok I know this thread has gone cold now for a couple of days, but I am still trying to get my head around implementing this in our setting. What do we do with our current 2 year olds? Will we all just have a bumper load of reports this autumn term? Ie children anywhere from just 2 to 2 yrs 11 3/4 months? And what then are you all proposing to do, just try and catch everyone by doing the reports at say 3 fixed points in the year, or are you favouring a more ad hoc approach? I guess i am particularly thinking about getting parental involvement, as our parents seem to need a lot of advance notice to put 5 mins in their busy diaries, especially if I want them to come in for a chat during or wrapped around our opening hours, I don't want to get caught out having umpteen evening sessions just to get this done. What are your thoughts??
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Well unless someone is going to fund it, then i dont care how much the government/ofsted tell us we have to make time or how many statutory requirements we are given. I for one do not propose to ask my staff to work anymore unpaid hours. Any extra 'informing' or 'consultation' with parents will have to be done in session or straight after. We cannot start funding staff to work evenings or afternoons. We have some training coming up next month which includes implementing the 2 yr progress check. I am interested how we are supposed to implement it for groups like ours. We dont take children until they are 2 & 8/9 mths and have only one intake per year in Sept. So............................ if they start at 2 yr 9/10 mths in Sept no point in doing anything until the next term and we have got to know them by which time they are 3. Do we need to still do it. Given that we are observing and assessing all our children all the time, compiling LJ's that we share with parents at least once a term, I wonder what will be much different, apart from having to ask parents set questions? We also have a couple of parents that we rarely see as they work ful time, how are we supposed to consult with them I wonder. 1
Guest Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 I think the timing of the two year old check will vary per setting. We now take children at two, since the four year old's went to school in September, so we will have to do it. I have already spoken to my committee about the extra paperwork based on what I have seen in the Know How Guidance. On page 24 onwards it gives 3 examples of reports that can be used . Yes it will be more time consuming and I am currently re-designing my settling in form, as that is always completed with a parent in the summer term. I am hoping to catch enough info here to build on and make the key person's life easier. Hopefully the training will answer our questions!
Guest Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Thanks for your input it gives us a starting point and I will definitely share this with staff at the next team meeting. I can't help but feel that we are being asked to do the HV check although somewhat varied on the focus, but I have heard parents saying that their child was 3 years old before getting their 2 year check up, I know the service is short staffed but if we keep having to fill in the gaps and pick up the slack we'll be short staffed too because the workload will be off putting to some !!
Guest Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 We have been told now that our LEA will produce their own designed 2 year old report with the help of health visitors and other professionals. This won't be ready till the Autumn, so just hope Ofsted do not make an early visit in September.
AnonyMouse_2418 Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Well Doris if Ofsted did turn up and ask just point them in the direction of your LA and get them to answer why you haven't implemented the 2 year old check ! It's not your fault if the powers that be tell you to wait is it ? 1
AnonyMouse_22106 Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 One thing I didn't realise until our training yesterday, was this report is for parents only it is up to them if they wish to share it with a health visitor. If parents are 'in denial' then doing these checks are still not going help children get early intervention. Our LEA are not producing any standard report, we were told to choose one from the guidance book and adapt to suit our needs.
Guest Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Sitting here trying to think of a 'quirky' name for our Progress check document? We already have All about Me sheets for something else! Thought it may make the checks more parent friendly...any ideas??
Guest Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) We were told to offer the check to parents, talk them through it, explain the why's and wherefor's and then a) go ahead with their permission or b ) complete yet another piece of paper which states they were offered the check on this date, they refused on this date and the reason they have given for the refusal. It was suggested that we write a formal letter, inviting the parents in to discuss the impending check and to go through all the legalities of it with them. I agree though, that this check is going to need to be included in policies - possibly with one just dedicated to it! We were also told that by 2014 (I think) the idea is that we are working with HV's to complete the check. How that will work, we will have to wait and see! Advice in our LA is to complete the check at around about the 2.6 year mark. What annoys me about it is that up until a couple of years ago, parents had to bring their children to the clinic to have the check performed by a HV, then it changed to HV's sending out questionnaires which were discretionary. I understand and appreciate that our health colleagues are snowed under, I just think it is unfair that the 'overspill' of their work is now being put on us (as if we haven't got enough to do..!) Our LA did give us a report which they suggest we use and in actual fact, I liked it so much, that I am already using the same document as a settling in profile for the children who came in from April. It is so basic and it will really make practitioners in my setting think about the judgements they are making as the space for writing is so tiny! They have to match their judgements to the DM bands which are in small boxes to be highlighted on the sheet, so it ties in really nicely. They won't have the opportunity to waffle away like they would normally do. Edited June 27, 2012 by Clare
Helen Posted June 27, 2012 Author Posted June 27, 2012 I think the old HV health check was very different to the 2 year check early years practitioners are being asked to do, though. I think for many settings it will just be a summary of the observations/records etc made for the child whilst at the setting, ie a summary snapshot of the three prime areas. Wouldn't most settings be completing some form of observation/assessment records anyway? It's probably more helpful to think of this as a developmental check rather than a health check, possibly? In which case, it sits very well with what EY practitioners do all the time
AnonyMouse_14602 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Hi We are trying to get hold of some blank copies of the 2 year Progress check, the same as the ones in the 2 Year Progress check booklet so staff can try them out to see which type of format they prefer. Are these available? Or have we got to reproduce our own? Thanks
Guest Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I'm thinking I'll do the chiidren who have been with us for while i.e this term and that will give us time to get to know the newbies, I will probably look at the older children first and am going to use the first half term to get these done. Right got that sorted now need to find a format to use and a policy too by the sound of it. Ah well onwards and upwards Edited July 3, 2012 by max321
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Just to throw something else into the mix Have had a visit from our SALT - a lovely lady who has been a fantastic support...........now that should read was a fantastic support .........she came to discuss 'the new system for referral' from September....... This may, of course, only apply to my area..........we will be expected to carry out a 'Communication Screening Assessment' (oh great ) before making any referrals.........still at least I received some training this morning - all of 10 minutes run through of what's expected :blink: Oh and there will not be any more 'SALT link visits' (again, could be just my area) So........wondering how much time I will have to spend playing with my children :blink: and how much time I will be spending making various 'checks and assessments'
AnonyMouse_8282 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Oh and there will not be any more 'SALT link visits' (again, could be just my area) :P :P :P Well, I suppose it could be just you're area................. because we've never had them in the first place!! :lol: :lol: still keeps muttering to self - from sept .............less paperwork, less paperwork.. less paperwork!!!! :huh: :huh: 2
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 :P :P :P Well, I suppose it could be just you're area................. because we've never had them in the first place!! :lol: :lol: still keeps muttering to self - from sept .............less paperwork, less paperwork.. less paperwork!!!! :huh: :huh: Okey-dokey - I will get 'back in my box'! :1b
AnonyMouse_12960 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I am looking at spending all summer updating formats for planning, policies and procedures, devising 2 yr old check forms, updating info sheets for parents, updating the sef, doing staff supervision forms....i am sure the list is longer than that, but im still struggling to find where my reduction in paperwork lies!!! If anyone finds this mystical reduction, please send your answer on a postcard please!! A total aside, but I did also post questions on the new ask the d of e section and was totally underwhelmed by the responses I got......so feeling a bit naffed off right now!!!!!
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I am looking at spending all summer updating formats for planning, policies and procedures, devising 2 yr old check forms, updating info sheets for parents, updating the sef, doing staff supervision forms....i am sure the list is longer than that, but im still struggling to find where my reduction in paperwork lies!!! If anyone finds this mystical reduction, please send your answer on a postcard please!! A total aside, but I did also post questions on the new ask the d of e section and was totally underwhelmed by the responses I got......so feeling a bit naffed off right now!!!!! You and me both :blink: :1b
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 :P :P :P Well, I suppose it could be just you're area................. because we've never had them in the first place!! :lol: :lol: Neither have we!! Ever get the feeling that someone, somewhere is now starting to take the proverbial michael? First it's checks that were done by H/V's now it's SAL?? What next.. still keeps muttering to self - from sept .............less paperwork, less paperwork.. less paperwork!!!! :huh: :huh: You just keep on re assuring us all with that mantra!! I'm sure we will all come to believe in it eventually, dont you??????????????? 1
AnonyMouse_8282 Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 If anyone finds this mystical reduction, please send your answer on a postcard please!! Ha ha.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: even more paperwork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::1a 2
Guest Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Just to throw something else into the mix Have had a visit from our SALT - a lovely lady who has been a fantastic support...........now that should read was a fantastic support .........she came to discuss 'the new system for referral' from September....... This may, of course, only apply to my area..........we will be expected to carry out a 'Communication Screening Assessment' (oh great ) before making any referrals.........still at least I received some training this morning - all of 10 minutes run through of what's expected :blink: Oh and there will not be any more 'SALT link visits' (again, could be just my area) So........wondering how much time I will have to spend playing with my children :blink: and how much time I will be spending making various 'checks and assessments' We have had to do one for the last couple of years, first it was a language assessment and laterly an ECAT form, no form no referral.
Guest Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 As mentioned previously in this thread I work with Health Visitors (I am a Nursery Nurse) and we regularly carry out 2 year reviews although since reading through this thread I am aware this is not happening in every area. I think if you were to make contact with your local Health Visitor they will have no idea that you are also being asked to review children's development at the age of 2! I am in regular contact with the local Pre-School in our area and we recently chatted about how we can work on 2 year reviews together as we really can see no point in us duplicating work! mrsW x
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 We have had to do one for the last couple of years, first it was a language assessment and laterly an ECAT form, no form no referral. Thanks max - that's really interesting.............think perhaps we have been well and truly 'spoiled' in our area - I really must stop 'moaning' :1b
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 As mentioned previously in this thread I work with Health Visitors (I am a Nursery Nurse) and we regularly carry out 2 year reviews although since reading through this thread I am aware this is not happening in every area. I think if you were to make contact with your local Health Visitor they will have no idea that you are also being asked to review children's development at the age of 2! I am in regular contact with the local Pre-School in our area and we recently chatted about how we can work on 2 year reviews together as we really can see no point in us duplicating work! mrsW x That's very interesting too - thanks for that MrsW :1b
Guest Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 As mentioned previously in this thread I work with Health Visitors (I am a Nursery Nurse) and we regularly carry out 2 year reviews although since reading through this thread I am aware this is not happening in every area. I think if you were to make contact with your local Health Visitor they will have no idea that you are also being asked to review children's development at the age of 2! I am in regular contact with the local Pre-School in our area and we recently chatted about how we can work on 2 year reviews together as we really can see no point in us duplicating work! mrsW x We were told that health visitors in our area would be doing the 2 year health check and we would do the 24 - 36 month development check - 2 totally different things?? Will be intersting to see if health visitors in our area know about this!
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