Guest Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hi all I am a reception teacher of a school which is fed by a playgroup.(not under our jurisdiction) the playgroup has a newish leader who we are tring to build a relationship with. The playgroup come to us every week for PE and since the new leader they have been using a walking rope which has been fashioned with loops every so often for the children to hook their wrists into to walk to and from us. I have never seen this before and am quite shocked to see it-is it widespread use amongst Pre schools/playgroups? (reminds me of convicts chained together!) The playgroup used to come to us walking in pairs holding hands (they are not crossing roads or anything just a couple of fields between them and us and we are talking 16 children with 4 adults) which has always been fine, without issue and good practice for what they will do when they get to school. I approached the playgroup leader today asking if they will be building up to walking in pairs holding hands and he said that was my job to teach them this not theirs!!!!!! I watch the children walking holding this rope and they are pulling it and others over surely this is a health and safety issue? I know this is only a small thing but I'm so cross that these children (all coming to school in Sept) are not being trusted to walk sensibly. What are your thoughts? Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 How odd - I replied once and my reply just disappeared Anyway - we use a 'walking rope' - it doesn't have any 'loops' - the children just hold it - I find it works very well for us........we have to cross at least two roads whenever we go out.........our walks are quite an 'event' - we all don our high vis vests and remind ourselves "we must not let go of the rope" We haven't had any children being 'pulled over' - our rope has one adult at the front and another at the back and another walking in the road to the side of the children :1b If we were only 'crossing fields' then I think I would be happy with hand holding :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Sorry I don't like them either. Hands are for holding and should be used to help children learn this vital skill, l hope that in doing this whilst on any trips including fire drill practice, walking to the park, library etc as well as talking as we go along about roads,vehicles,pavements, looking and listening and keeping safe etc. Hoping this inturn will help them when they are and about anywhere. As for saying this is a schools job/role etc I find that really sad as surely it's everybodies duty as well as parents to aide this skill. Sorry goes to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Oops sorry should have said out and about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Sorry I don't like them either. Hands are for holding and should be used to help children learn this vital skill, l hope that in doing this whilst on any trips including fire drill practice, walking to the park, library etc as well as talking as we go along about roads,vehicles,pavements, looking and listening and keeping safe etc. Hoping this inturn will help them when they are and about anywhere. As for saying this is a schools job/role etc I find that really sad as surely it's everybodies duty as well as parents to aide this skill. Sorry goes to hide. Please don't 'hide' Fredbear! :1b Each to their own really.....what works for one setting may not work for another - we all have our own ideas and needs :1b I completely agree that learning about 'road safety' is a job for all - really wish that some of my parents took it all more seriously - I despair when I see really little children (3 and under) running way ahead of parents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 we used one years ago when we had to cross a very busy main road to get to the local park. It worked like a dream...........and the children knew they had to obey the road safety rules. It's an idea that came across from Italy I believe, certainly I have seen it in use in Cyprus. I can't see any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea, children will learn that when at their setting, this is the system in use, but when with one adult, mummy or daddy or whatever, they hold hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_15046 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 My feeling is that wherever possible I'd rather teach children to hold hands. They can then transfer this skill and the associated rules to walking with other adults outside the setting and perhaps it will help keep one or two a little safer. However holding hands in pairs in a large group does require every child to look after his or her partner a little and I can see that if your partner is messing about this could be quite unsettling for a pre-school child. Holding a rope also helps to keep everyone together and removes that need for running to catch up or an adult at the back constantly asking them to walk more quickly to stay together. It can also help to make sure they stay away from the edge of a busy road. I suppose, like many other things in our settings, it depends on how sensitively it is used by the adults concerned. I would be concerned about children walking with their wrists through loops though. The risk of being pulled over must be quite significant and it feels a little too close to being tied on. Perhaps that's just me over-thinking it. Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I should clarify, ours did not have the loops in use today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 In our setting we have 3 and 4 year olds only (so can't speak for people with younger children - although as a nanny with 4 children under 5 we still managed) We never use a "rope" of any kind, we find it only takes one or two of our livelier or younger children to start tugging and it turns into a game. Instead we hold hands in pairs, walking out to the play ground, through the school (we are attached to) and out on any trips. When taking children out of the setting we maintain a ratio of 1:4 minimum through parent helpers (it has taken a lot of work, but we are getting very strong parent links) when walking through the school the children know to hold hands in pairs with a friend, and walk very sensibly. We have so far managed trips to the local fire station, parks (various ones) a chinese restaurant, & the local castle. The children all wear hi-vis jackets, the staff also wear hi-vis jackets, and the children are paired up to ensure those that need to hold an adults hand do, while the more sensible one hold hands and walk independently. Adults are responsible for their two children, plus the independent pair in front of them. (Not sure how clear that is? it's getting late!) All the trips mentioned earlier are about 30 - 40 min walk, involve crossing several roads, walking on paths along some quite busy roads, and using crossings etc. My team and I all agree that the children (& parents) need to learn how to walk sensibly along roads. We have never had any trouble, no children running off or stepping out into the road etc. I personally feel (especially with so much traffic on the roads) that it is more important than ever that these children learn road safety, and its far better to start teaching them early, than to try to undo bad habits when they are older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 i think busybeedeb that this might be a difficult one to discuss with this new leader i suppose all you can do is monitor the new intake when they arrive with you and see if they are better or worst when it comes to trips out, armed with this evidence then you can go back to the leader and tell him if it works or not. I suspect if this setting is nothing to do with you then you might get a bit of a negative response, and he might say that the rope works better in his risk assessment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I've used a skipping rope with knots tied in for children to hold onto (especially useful for one child who as part of her sensory issues found it painful to hold children's hands) and I've also had children walking in pairs holding hands. It is always a difficult prospect to raise an issue like this with a setting that is not connected to yours, with practitioners over whom you have no supervisory control or jurisdiction. As a newish leader he may well have been a bit challenged by your question, so I would worry too much - just continue to work at building a relationship with him and perhaps in time he'll be more receptive to discussing differences in practice. Children need to develop the same skills when holding hands or using the rope: they need to develop their awareness of traffic, how to cross a road safely and how to walk sensibly. One child pulling at another child as they walk along can be just as dangerous as the perceived problems with the rope, so it is vital that we enable children to develop the skills they need as is appropriate. It may also be that the leader is not yet fully confident in his ability to manage the walk safely, and the rope gives him some measure of control. As he gets to know the children better, and recognises when they are ready to move to the next stage, perhaps he will feel confident to progress to walking hand in hand in pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2268 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Oh dear. Im even worse then. :huh: We have a walking rope with loops but never felt happy taking children out on the road with it.. Havent had the staff / adults ratios to do regular walks in town but really really want to. To be honest my concern is with more with maintaining the attention of some staff / parents ... just dont feel confident about how quick their reactions would be ... That and the fact that we take children from age 2...and have several who are just too risky to take out without extra measures to keep them safe... We decided to purchase a walkodile so we can get out and about some more and feel secure doing so. the comments above have made me think but really I feel this was the right option for us right now at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I looked at the walkodile but it was just too wide for our narrow village roads. The woman who designed it didn't believe me when I visited her stand, but it just wasn't right for us. And to be honest I didn't like the idea of children being strapped into it! I think what this thread shows is that there isn't one way that suits everyone's purposes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Trekker...what are your ratios then? surely if you have 2 year olds then they are in a 1:4 ratio ...when we take the little ones out the two near the road hold the adults hand who is on the road side and the two on the inside hold the other childs hand so it is virtually impossible for them to go anywhere...but it does take practise! i have also perfected the art of holding hands with 3 children at the same time so can supervise 6 if needed! it is also a case of us choosing who they walk with (rather than letting the children choose) this way you can carefully selct who they walk with!! we often walk 30 children up and down the high street (quite town)...awful at the beginning of the year but not bad by now...and we have lots of children with eal and sen so no the easiest of groups! :rolleyes: (have to say i'm not keen on the walking ropes and my aim is for the children to risk assess the situation so tying them in would not be in my remit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I just recall my reception children's scorn, years ago, when they saw one of the independent schools out and about using a rope whilst we were in the park....."Can't they walk by themselves Miss?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2268 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Yes the 2 yr olds are 1 to 4 but that sometimes leaves one staff with 8....or two staff with 4 each and to me thats still too many - especially with 2's and children who are just unpredictable or plain wont hold a hand. Its no fun for the others if you have to spend all your time trying to get one child to hold on, they are screaming on the floor, the rest of the group had to wait and watch etc - its not good advertising either ...when that happens the only option is to abandon the walk (which we've had to do several times) or just dont go in the first place... with 1 to 4 ratio - two children on each hand...I dont think you can guarantee the child holding another child wont let go...you just dont know. Its not feasible to go out regularly with a one to one or one to two ratio which we do if we go on proper trips. I just feel like at least when theyre all holding on you can actually enjoy the walk with them and focus on what you want them to notice and discuss so they really can to explore the local environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 sorry it wasn't supposed to come across as a critisism...my apologies if that was how it sounded :huh: you have to do what works for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_705 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Yes the 2 yr olds are 1 to 4 but that sometimes leaves one staff with 8....or two staff with 4 each and to me thats still too many - especially with 2's and children who are just unpredictable or plain wont hold a hand. Its no fun for the others if you have to spend all your time trying to get one child to hold on, they are screaming on the floor, the rest of the group had to wait and watch etc - its not good advertising either ...when that happens the only option is to abandon the walk (which we've had to do several times) or just dont go in the first place... with 1 to 4 ratio - two children on each hand...I dont think you can guarantee the child holding another child wont let go...you just dont know. Its not feasible to go out regularly with a one to one or one to two ratio which we do if we go on proper trips. I just feel like at least when theyre all holding you can actually enjoy the walk with them and focus on what you want them to notice and discuss so they really can to explore the local environment. I'm with you on this one Trekker, we are on a busy road, I would not consider walking with children to that unless I had one adult to two children, with the adult holding each child's hand less if the child is younger or requires additional support. As you say this allows children and adults to interact about what they see around them. With this ratio I would let children walk or even run around a field that was safe, having given children verbal instruction to respond to a whistle ie 1 blow stand still, 2 blows come back to me which I learnt on a Forest School course I attended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2268 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 finleysmaid ... sorry if I sounded on the defensive. Been another challenging day Its just after having a genuine accident happening in setting on a couple of occasions we have had blame flung on the staff and complaints to deal with and having to accept all the fall out from that (despite all the strategies and risk assessments and close supervison in place).... I guess I just think how much easier it is for something to happen outside the setting and how much worse it could be and I just want a bit more of a feeling of control / security that the walking rope / walkodile offers. Like you say it is very much a personal thing about confidence and knowing the children in your group - and ours are something of a challenge right now. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_64 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have worked in a setting that used a walking rope and it worked very well. The loops are intended as 'handles' for the children to hold onto - you make it sound like they are used to tie the children to the rope! The benefit of the loops is that they can be tied at regular intervals which mean that if the children walk with the rope reasonably tight, they are all walking with a space in front and behind to stop jostling. As Maz already stated, teaching the children to hold onto the loops is no different to teaching children to hold onto a hand. Providing it is explained to the children why they are using it and road safety is addressed within the setting regularly, the children will understand the importance of staying with an adult and walking sensibly. :1b 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Our skipping rope had knots tied in it at set intervals so that each child held onto their knot, with the skipping rope between them and the rope. The spacings between the rope meant that children's personal space could be respected, too. As the children became more reliable we stopped using the rope anyway: they had reached the stage where they could apply their knowledge of how to be safe around cars, dogs, horses and so on and so the skipping rope became unnecessary. All the children could tell anyone who asked that holding hands was how we kept each other safe, and they were all comfortable and happy holding hands either with their friends or with an adult or both. So long as you can justify your reasons for using the method you do (and it is effective in meeting children's needs), the children are kept safe and able to learn basic road safety methods, I think you should be safe from criticism. Ultimately the adults need to be confident that they can manage small children out and about on a walk, and we know that worried practitioners are likely to make children worried and feel unsafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 :blink: Was I previously defending 'walking ropes'..........we used ours this morning - we were off to join in with Priimary School Jubilee celebrations........for some unknown reason the children were all soooooo slow - I really thought the Jubilee would be over before we got there! :lol: Maybe, just maybe I might try hand holding in future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_22993 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 We use a walkodile whenever we are walking along roads and it works really well for us. We used to have a walking rope but our DO didnt like it at all. If we are walking across fields the children hold hands. As was said earlier what works for one setting may no work for another! K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Horses for courses really, isn't it We have 2 walkadiles however they are a pain I find to get children into and out of and if we go somewhere like our local library where the childrens section is upstairs and not enough room for the children to get in the doors in it, which means we have to put them in/take them out on a really busy road. We are situated on what is almost a dual carriage way and even with 3/4 year old would not even consider going out unless we were on a 1:2 basis. Although I do find some parents are more interested in chatting to each other then watching the children they are supervising!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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