AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) The answer is in... I have just received clarification regarding CRB renewals from the senior management team and can inform you that although this is not a national policy, it is a local policy that Birmingham City Council have introduced to standardise practice between nurseries and childminders that are funded through NEF. The statutory guidance from DFE allows Local Authorities to introduce quality measures to suit local need, and we have been informed to strive for quality that is above minimum standards when we are funding providers for NEF, so we have made these changes to the terms and conditions We are requesting that providers meet this new condition with regard to CRB's within 12 months from the 1st October 2012, so i would suggest a rolling programme throughout the year for completion. I hope this clarifies the situation for you, Kind regards, Emily Nursery Education Funding Early Years and Childcare This is not the end though! Edited October 16, 2012 by Rea Quote
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I should hope not! So are they funding the cost of it through the NEG? Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 It would appear so Cait, there is no other way to do it. We can fundraise but that means we dont buy other things, we cant possibly put the fee's up and we already have cleaning resources, wipes, tissues etc donated. We'll just cut back on the activities we provide. I'm going to the PLA AGM tomorrow night so thats another avenue to wander down, although to be honest, they dont tend to do anything to rock the council boat. I'm so darned cross about this. :angry: Quote
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Rea, I dont blame you. It's outrageous and to be honest it sounds to me like it's a rule someone somewhere has made up thinking it looks good without really thinking it through. I would keep plugging the finance issue as it's the one thing you have on your side. I am secretary of our local PSLA sub committee and can assure you that our committee is quite happy to rock the boat when necessary with our LA. However the actual PSLA have a SLA with our LA so the DW's are often reluctant to get involved with any disputes or just pay lip service to them as technically their wages are paid by the LA. Not sure if this is the case for all local PSLA. Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I used to be on our sub committee too, it was about the time when the council withdrew some funding from the PLA and took over in a lot of ways. The PLA used to have development workers who would come out every so often, they were good at what they did and knew the job. Most of them, if not all, had worked in playgroups in church halls. Then the city took that role off them replacing them with their own support workers leaving the PLA with parent and toddler groups. Things have never been the same! I've just emailed again, with quotes out of the LA guidance, all referring to the support councils must/should offer to enable providers to keep offering the free entitlement. And just in case anyone is wondering, I left playgroup in 2005!! Edited October 17, 2012 by Rea 1 Quote
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The old PLA development workers were fab! Ours was called Ruth and she seemed to do everything in her power to help wherever she could. She could get us funding for a child who needed one to one - and it came the next week! She got us grants for stuff and everything seemed to happen straight away. I'm not knocking the current LA ones, but their hands seem to be so tied, and the workings of county council seem to grind much slower. Those were the days You are doing a great job! Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Paul's fab, he's sent me this... Andrea - thank you for keeping me copied into these exchanges. You might want to aware that there is no legal requirement to renew CRB checks for childminders. Ofsted would only require a new check to be done if a safeguarding concern had been raised about the childminder or member of their household (aged 16 or over). You may also want to know that current DfE statutory guidance for schools on Safeguarding children and safer recruitment says Schools, FE colleges or local authorities are not required to ask existing staff, in post, who were not previously eligible (including those recruited before the establishment of the CRB) for criminal background checks to apply for a CRB Disclosure, unless: they have concerns about the person’s suitability to work with children; or an individual moves to work that involves greater contact with children and their previous work did not require a CRB Enhanced Disclosure. ;)I'm rather enjoying myself 3 Quote
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Haha, it sounds like it! Good going! Quote
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 More power to your elbow (or whichever body part you choose to hit them with )! :1b Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 It'll be my mouth tonight Sunnyday , at the PLA AGM where the city development workers will be in attendance. Just doing some revision and a bit more digging into the Disclosure and Baring leaflet and the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 so I know what I'm asking and been told. After this, I'm going to become a sleuth! Quote
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 It'll be my mouth tonight Sunnyday , at the PLA AGM where the city development workers will be in attendance. Just doing some revision and a bit more digging into the Disclosure and Baring leaflet and the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 so I know what I'm asking and been told. After this, I'm going to become a sleuth! Excellent! :1b I am sending some positive vibes right now! Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 http://www.navca.org.uk/home Just found this site. It looks like it might be useful in the event you have a problem with your LA over funding or anything to do with your community. Depending on the response I get from our LA I could well be emailing them :1b Has anyone ever used them? Quote
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Well that looks as it could be useful!! Our PSLA DW's are great. They visit all settings once a term and if required (. on RAG amber twice) Our LA only visit groups that are flagged up as Red. They would be stuck if they didn't have them, I think if they employed their own DW's it would cost them quite a lot more. I have just started our committee digging away at our schools forum to try and find out where and how much top slicing is going on with the EY budget, Honestly, you'd think they had signed the official secrets act. The last answer i got was: It's difficult to give a straight answer (nothing new here then!) as you are already probably aware that the government is changing the way EY funding is being allocated for 2013/2014. Erm- didn't ask that- asked how much was 'top slcied' and what was it used for. We'll see- have gone back with the same question. Good luck Rea- dont let them win this, I get s fed up with hearing about having to CRB check every three years. ....and I'm one of those who have never been CRB''d. Problem is the last 2 inspections we have had the Ofsted inspector was so young she didn't even know that we were under SS prior to Ofsted. i have a letter from a senior manager at Ofsted stating much the same thing as above in relation to my original police checks. Edited October 17, 2012 by lynned55 Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Met the lady I've been emailing tonight, she of course doesnt know anything more than that its Birmingham policy which is why she's sent the emails to her boss. She said childminders were asked to repeat their CRB a year ago when some had to be removed from the register! I have pointed out strongly that this will not raise quality, the cost will mean we spend less on activities and events so our quality will fall. I also told her Paul Oates had asked to be included in the emails, she said it was Paul who told them to improve quality. Again I said this wont improve quality but she said the workforce will be following best practice in safeguarding. I told her myself and others see the CRB as a piece of paper and I would much rather decide from watching and knowing my staff if they are suitable. I told her I wont do anything yet anyway because I'm going to wait until early 2013 when the government are introducing the checking system, it might work out cheaper to register for that as at least I know knew I had 12 months to get the CRBs done, she said thats not really official but she did agree I shouldn't do anything just yet. She said I'm the only person to have complained, but I told her my initial email went to all Birmingham settings and from there I have had a number of people asking me to keep them informed. She also told me other LAs request this, but I told her I was part of a forum which was country wide and I hadnt heard of any, apparently Worcestershire do it, she knew because her sister works there. I know lots of people who work in Worcestershire as its the county my local pub is in, so I can get a copy of their terms and conditions quite easily, hopefully (their web site doesnt give anymore away than Birmingham's) She also said that when the childminders had to renew, they were given funding, and this is something the council are looking to find for us too. I asked about the consultation I'd been told had been carried out, and this is where it got confusing. She said the consultation had lasted a year and asked if I'd been invited by 'infomail', I hadnt, and then said the infomail started in September. I tried to get this straight but the conversation went off onto checking my email address and postal address and I didnt get it back. So a productive evening? Not sure yet, I need to word my next email to Paul carefully and see what he has to say. I also admit to almost walking past her, I didnt know who she was but her name badge gave her away so I introduced myself purely because I'd told Sunnyday I would use my mouth. ::1a 1 Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Sorry about all the 'she said', 'I said', I was typing as I was thinking (or not) Quote
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) It's fine! Not noticed till you said! Well it sounds productive. You've rattled her cage and she knows you're not backing down, even if she tried to distract you a bit. Now are you emailing all the settings to see if they got the info mail too? Certainly get them to complain! Well done so far! Edited for iPad spell check! Doh!! Edited October 18, 2012 by Cait Quote
AnonyMouse_26513 Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Sorry - am with Towergates...they use ACE Europe. Better cover for us than the PSLA. Quote
Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Hi quick question to all managers out there are you going to renew your CRB checks every three years now Ofsted not responsible for them? Obviously Ofsted did mine and I know from trying to get a copy to the uni when I trained that no-one else likes to do them when Ofsted are involved. I tried to get a new one and no-one would do it. However I asked today if I needed to be checked every three years (the same as the other staff) now they are no longer responsible for CRB's she said that mine would still stand all the while I was manager of my current setting but it was good practice to re-do every three year like we did the other staff and it would be up to us as a setting to decide if I should done every three years. The other slight problem is that I am the named person who checks all the ID stuff and I cant check myself so not really sure if I am now covered as before or not :huh: wondered what everybody else was doing I have just had mine re-done by Ofsted as I am now the Manager and I asked about renewing the practitioners every three years and she said I didn't have to. Quote
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Ofsted have now published a factsheet - Criminal Records Bureau checks for those providers who register with Ofsted - No 090103. Sorry don't know how to do links. Hope this helps. Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 It wont help my case Sn0wdr0p, Birmingham City Council tell me its their own policy which they are allowed to do!!! The fights not over, I'm waiting for a response to my questions, they have until next Tuesday Quote
AnonyMouse_39602 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Rea we don't pay for any of our crb checks as we are charity status, keep on at them like a dog with a bone - they want it they can fund it , surely as long as you have correct procedure in place for checking and updating what is the point - good luck Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 As a charity none of us pay for the first one, but subsequent ones are chargable. https://www.gov.uk/crb-criminal-records-bureau-check/overview (Cheaper than I thought!) The Ofsted leaflet Sn0wdr0p mentions is here http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/factsheet-childcare-criminal-records-bureau-crb-checks-for-those-providers-who-register-ofsted, makes good common sense 3 Quote
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Rea, even if it is cheaper than thought that isn't the point is it? if it is not mandatory and Ofsted dont require it then why the Dickens should BCC. And if the do then they should jolly well fund it- even if the cost was as low as £1- they should still be funding it. I think someone somewhere made the rule up just for the sake of it and now wont back down. Good luck 2 Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 You're quite right Lynn, I object on exactly those grounds. We'll wait and see though. They should really have responded by Wednesday 31st October but I've given them an extra 4 four days in case their 14 days doesnt include weekends. So Tuesday at the very latest I'll be on the phone :angry: Quote
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 You're quite right Lynn, I object on exactly those grounds. We'll wait and see though. They should really have responded by Wednesday 31st October but I've given them an extra 4 four days in case their 14 days doesnt include weekends. So Tuesday at the very latest I'll be on the phone :angry: Go Rea! Quote
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 I've just sent a reminder that I expect answers Tuesday at the latest so I can inform the committee on Wednesday, so watch this space!! 3 Quote
AnonyMouse_12805 Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Good for you!! I/we will be right behind you (in spirit ) cheering you on. What are you going to do if the haven't replied by Tuesday? Quote
Guest Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 Hi all in oz we have to pay for a working with children's card which contains our address and photo. If I move to another setting I just take it with me. I only have to renew every 5 years at my cost. I am reading all the posts and feeling a little homesick.....I would love to just work normally ..... One of the things I hate here is that you can lone work....my director opens the centre by herself and admits children untill I arrive at 8.am. After I leave at 4.30 one staff member will be there with children untill 6 pm. I work on a 1-5 ratio with toddlers all day by myself..... Sometimes very lonely ...... Quote
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