To Crb Or Not To Crb

[AnonyMouse_31752]

Hi

 

quick question to all managers out there are you going to renew your CRB checks every three years now Ofsted not responsible for them?

 

Obviously Ofsted did mine and I know from trying to get a copy to the uni when I trained that no-one else likes to do them when Ofsted are involved. I tried to get a new one and no-one would do it. However I asked today if I needed to be checked every three years (the same as the other staff) now they are no longer responsible for CRB's she said that mine would still stand all the while I was manager of my current setting but it was good practice to re-do every three year like we did the other staff and it would be up to us as a setting to decide if I should done every three years.

 

The other slight problem is that I am the named person who checks all the ID stuff and I cant check myself so not really sure if I am now covered as before or not :huh:

 

wondered what everybody else was doing

[AnonyMouse_35577]

We are not renewing every 3 years - we are just signing a statement to say that nothing has happened since the last check that could have a bearing upon its status

[AnonyMouse_19762]

We are not renewing every 3 years - we are just signing a statement to say that nothing has happened since the last check that could have a bearing upon its status

 

Ditto :1b

[AnonyMouse_19354]

and me! usually done with the appraisals :1b

[AnonyMouse_3139]

In cases like this I tend to email Ofsted with the question and keep their answer on file. I wont be doing our staff or manager every 3 years, its good practice but not mandatory and for anything other than new staff it would have to be paid for and we're skint!

I also know the staff well and have no concerns about them, trust has to start somewhere.

[AnonyMouse_31752]

thanks for the replies guys can I just clarify then do none of you re-do your staff every three years? I thought we had to so if we don't then maybe we should look at if we should stop and save some money. I have tried asking Ofsted but at the moment they are just saying its good practice not mandatory and basically our choice.

 

The health checks are the same new employees we ask for doctors report the rest of us just fill in a health report that the pre-school generate every five years and sign at appraisal time in between to say that nothing has changed and we are still healthy. Is this how you all do your CRB's then? do you ever do re-checks for existing staff?

[AnonyMouse_2418]

We do the annual update sheet for every staff member to report any changes and will continue to do the CRB's every 3 years , it is good practice and our LA like it to be that way. I check the staffs forms and my Admin Officer does mine - I also have to have one done every 3 years by the school my setting is attached to as I am a Governor but they organise that.

[AnonyMouse_12805]

AS others I have never rechecked staff & in fact, I have a letter on file from Ofsted stating that this only needs to be done if you move settings. Doesn't even say it is good practise. Quite honestly I'm not sure why this should be deemed as good practice anyway. It means nothing and would just cost us a load of money.

[AnonyMouse_3139]

We have never rechecked at 3 years. I am prepared to argue our LA if they say they want it done that they should pay then! Ofsted are the people who we ultimatley answer to and if they don't need us to recheck then I won't.

You have to ask yourself how good a CRB check is anyway and if its worth the cost and hassle. Lots of people have more than one CRB anyway, all done at various times, I had 4! Playgroup, scouts, an agency and the NHS, all within 4 years. I know they're not transferable but they do kind of prove a point.

As an owner or manager I would be observant of the staff, encourage an open environment and make sure everyone is aware of their's and everyone else's roles.

[AnonyMouse_5970]

I agree, and don't re-check every three years. Rea, I agree that if an LA insists, then they should pay or al least subsidise - re-checks I have done in the past were £60 a go!

Beehive

[AnonyMouse_11962]

We don't recheck either

[Guest]

I contacted Ofsted about the very same thing and I have it in writing that it is up to the owner/ management committee to decide if they want to re- check staff.

 

At £62 a re-check with TMG that will soon add up, and if it's not required I think I would only re do them if I had concerns.

[AnonyMouse_30128]

I contacted Ofsted about the very same thing and I have it in writing that it is up to the owner/ management committee to decide if they want to re- check staff.

 

At £62 a re-check with TMG that will soon add up, and if it's not required I think I would only re do them if I had concerns.

yep me too and i have a note from TMG saying the same thing. When we moved i checked this 3 times with ofsted.....the answer ....no need to redo!

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I phoned Ofsted today about CRBs because our playleader thought she'd read in the new EYFS that the CRB needed to be done every 3 years. Ofsted lady said 'it was never a requirement that the CRB be re-done every 3 years, just a suggestion'. She said we needed to have a proper vetting procedure in place and be able to record anything that might affect a staff members suitability.

She then read the following passages to me:

3.11 Providers must tell staff that they are expected to disclose any convictions, cautions, court orders, reprimands and warnings which may affect their suitability to work with children (whether received before or during their employment at the setting). Providers must not allow people whose suitability has not been checked, including through a criminal records check, to have unsupervised contact with children being cared for.

3.12 Providers other than childminders must record information about staff qualifications and the identity checks and vetting processes that have been completed (including the criminal records disclosure, reference number, the date a disclosure was obtained and details of who obtained it). For childminders the relevant information will be kept by Ofsted.

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Thanks Rea :1b

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Attached is the reply I recently received from Ofsted regarding the CRBs.

Great, except Birmingham have just declared that one of the conditions for claiming funding for 2, 3, and 4 years olds is that staff are rechecked every 3 years.

 

The Government are in the process of developing a scheme whereby, for a small fee a CRB can be issued and rechecked.

Page 8 on this link https://mail-attachm...K-F0Ng&sadssc=1

 

Hopefully this will go some way to saving us money on the CRBs but I need to check the timescale the council are giving us.

 

 

Edited to say, I left playgroup 7 years ago, it's not very noticeable is it????? :huh:

Ofsted response to CRB 2012.doc

Edited October 3, 2012 by Rea

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Thanks! :1b

[Guest]

Rea - I had this same issue with our LA a few years ago but they did back down with evidence from Ofsted and the CRB company that we would be charged. It might be worth pushing it with the authority.

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Oh I will Holly, I know we want everyone to be trustworthy and suitable to be working with our children but I have a feeling this is Birmingham's response to the mistakes their own departments have made over the years.

We have enough money in the bank for Octobers and Novembers wages and rent and that's it at the moment, so if they think we've got money to spare on things we really dont have to buy, then they have another think coming.

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I phoned the council today.

I asked when these renewed CRBs had to be done by and was told October 1st.

I said I'd only read the new terms and conditions on October 1st so surely all settings would have a problem as we hadnt budgeted for the cost.

The lady said we'd known for 2 years we were going to have to do this, because they'd been running consultations on it.

I reminded her it wasnt an Ofsted requirement but she said Ofsted only ask for minimum standards and this new requirement came from the DfE in order for us to secure NEF.

I asked when we would have to renew so to ensure we still got NEF, she said we could withdraw if we wanted to.

I spoke to a different lady last week who said she didnt know about 3 year checks for settings and I would have to see what was in the new terms and conditions.

 

I have emailed the DfE and await their response.

[AnonyMouse_13453]

I wait with bated breath .........

[Guest]

I don't remember seeing it in the consultation for the NEF from the DfE and I'm sure there would have been some outcry if it was. I maybe wrong but do you think they are trying to invoke the DfE as a way of stopping the argument? Will be interested to see their response...

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I've trawled the DfE site but couldnt find anything, so their response will be interesting.

I've also asked settings in Birmingham to answer a few questions regarding the time limits, cost, budgeting and when they knew about it. Hopefully people will respond :1b

[AnonyMouse_12805]

Hmm, I think someone maybe reciting a fairy story Rea- DfE requirement? Not one that I have ever heard- dont remember seeing it in the consultation either.I shall be interested in their reply to you.

 

seriously though- I do hope that your LA doesn't make it a condition of claiming funding- I can see it costing settings a fortune if they do.

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I've just emailed the EY dept, very nicely asking for clarification on the time scale and wondering if they could point me to the DfE requirement, just for my information. I sent the email as a reply to the one they sent the T&Cs in...and to all 500 settings in the City that were cc'd into it.

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Go Rea! :1b

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Just had 2 replies already, both saying I'd included them in my email to the EY dept!!

Oops, I'm such a dummy when it comes to emails and technical things :huh:

[AnonyMouse_19762]

Just had 2 replies already, both saying I'd included them in my email to the EY dept!!

Oops, I'm such a dummy when it comes to emails and technical things :huh:

 

Result! :1b

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I've just sent an email to all 500 settings apologising for including them in the email, that'll make 'em read the first one!

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Hmm, I think someone maybe reciting a fairy story Rea- DfE requirement? Not one that I have ever heard- dont remember seeing it in the consultation either.I shall be interested in their reply to you.

 

seriously though- I do hope that your LA doesn't make it a condition of claiming funding- I can see it costing settings a fortune if they do.

 

Missed that, (feeding the hubby) it is a condition of funding, which is why I'm so annoyed about it, To renew all staff and committee would cost around £600. We dont have that sort of money lying around and if we did, I'd give the staff the pay rise they havent had since 2010.. The lady I spoke to today said we could withdraw from the funding if we wanted to. Rather a helpful comment I thought hence the emails and googling tonight.