AnonyMouse_4562 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think that the problem is very much to do with how we interpret what is written in the document. If I can remember rightly, the emphasise on 'planning for next steps' was to move away from settings doing the same 'activity-led' topics each year based on the same learning expectations with no real link to assessment of the current children's abilities and needs. Then we all start feeling that we must have loads of evidence to show that we base the resources, activities, support that we provide on our assessments and what we want children to learn next. BUT...this is what we are all doing anyway! Nowhere in the document does it state that we have to write down all the children's next steps we just feel that we have to do it to prove ourselves. As long as we are observing and assessing the children and using this to inform our planning, and of course, track their progress, then we are doing exactly as they ask us to. I am the WORST (or best!) at coming up with new planning forms to record all that we do but am slowly realising that much of it is unnecessary and increasingly unmanageable. Green Hippo x 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Hello everyone This is my first time on this forum....isn't it fab! I've downloaded loads already. I run a small playgroup for a good few years now and I must say I have never been so confused as I am now! I really hoped the new EYFS would reduce the workload but it doesn't look that way! I am a little disheartened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11962 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 We do some next steps but they could be called PLODs no doubt. And no other planning apart from learning environment indoors plus a generic outdoor plan. That's it - the next steps are the individual planning done by the key person for each child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone This is my first time on this forum....isn't it fab! I've downloaded loads already. I run a small playgroup for a good few years now and I must say I have never been so confused as I am now! I really hoped the new EYFS would reduce the workload but it doesn't look that way! I am a little disheartened! Hello Bizzy, Don't be disheartened! I think the message that comes through this thread, reading it from start to finish, is to do what is natural for your setting. You are probably doing all the support planning for your children - call it whatever you will, 'what fun shall we have next?' Or whatever! It's in your head if it's not written down. You know where your children 'are' and what you need to do to take them onward in their learning. We are trying out a minimal paperwork approach this year, and so far we're enjoying the freedom it is giving! Edited September 27, 2012 by Cait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I have not been to any meetings telling us not to use next steps. With having to demonstrate personal learning, achievement and progress to Ofsted, I cannot imagine not using next steps on specific pieces of work included in the child's Learning journal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Hi and a warm welcome Bizzy. Cait from my experience of Ofsted last week the keyperson may well know that child inside out, interests, styles of play etc in their head, but I'm afraid they do want to see it in your documentations, assessments. One of our little ones that was tracked had only been with us 2 weeks, uh next steps, plods whatever you want to call it i don't think so. Settling, caring and supporting was our prime concerns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_29582 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 PLODS/next steps/O&A/DM/CP - This seems to taking over my life - im even dreaming about it now! Is this happening to anyone else!! Yep, that's why I'm sitting here on a sunny Saturday morning trying for the umpteenth time to find a format that my staff can use and that will meet the needs of the child (if a child needs to have their needs met by writing it down on a piece of paper - instead of course by spending actual time with them, learning about them, interacting with them................ ), satisfy the EYs team, get the thumbs up from Ofsted and be parent and user friendly ----- and of course--- actually work. Hence to say, I'm struggling... do we record DM's as next steps, Areas, Characteristics, Interests, seems to me whichever you choose to satisfy the paperwork monkeys, is never the one they want to see when they check it out.... :blink: Everyone's help/advise, examples would be warmly welcomed - there are some great ones here but most of them seem to be for reception which work on a slightly different process to pre-school's who have key persons, children who do not attend everyday etc. :rolleyes: Thanks in advance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_29582 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Hi and a warm welcome Bizzy. Cait from my experience of Ofsted last week the keyperson may well know that child inside out, interests, styles of play etc in their head, but I'm afraid they do want to see it in your documentations, assessments. One of our little ones that was tracked had only been with us 2 weeks, uh next steps, plods whatever you want to call it i don't think so. Settling, caring and supporting was our prime concerns. We had the same experience on our last Ofsted, we used to make observations, snap shots, take hundreds of photos to show children's instant learning, really get to know our children inside and out, but because the way we did the next steps was mainly by knowing the children, using this knowledge and instantaneously adapting and changing the environment or way in which an activity/area was being used (though not necessarily recording this on masses of other paperwork) i.e one week we changed an activity so that the children could make their own dough as the day before they had been making sandwiches and this wasn't marked on the plans or aligned to the specific half termly next steps plan for that child, they said it wasn't a next step.....and downed us on our grading.... It was sooooo frustrating. I am beginning to think that the learning journals that come with children from other settings that appear to be half a dozen pages and ten or so obs for a whole year (and who's settings have been graded outstanding), are the way we should be doing it, even though I feel this is a cope out on the child, to just cover the minimum and make sure its documented..... surely this can't be right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_29582 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 my answer to next steps - would be - supervisor and staff working very hard , committed and caring , engaging with others - next step - more pay and recognition . PLOD - means to plod along knowing that may never happen !!! can you note the sarcasm there Having just completed an EYPS that now isn't worth the paper it's writter on to meet one of the wider 'next steps' you might say I have more than a little sarcasm going on... and as for next steps AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Why can't we just give the children what they want to make them grow and be healthy and motivated to learn?????? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19354 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I sometimes wonder if it isnt the parent that expects too much and cannot bear to see the child ' just playing' even if you tell them all the learning thats going on till your blue in the face. Prime example this week; After explaining about small focus group work that we do with our key children the parent was heard to comment ' well I suppose they learn to sit down!' Some days i just give up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 we do plods - where might this child's interests take us. we do new experiences/next steps - what are we going to plan for this child and what development are we wanting him to learn both these are done for the individual child, so evey child has one of these and all plans are tailored for each child If you educate your parents, very slow process and i find best by just drip feeding them (sorry parents) constantly and by having frequent open mornings and staff who strongly believe in what we do, it does eventually sink in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I was told by my advisor, observe in your head using you professional opionion plan activities based on the observations in your head and key workers from the setting evaluate on the back of the plans then add the initals of the children onto the planning sheet evaluate take pictures etc minimal writing involved as long as you can show progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Playgroup5s Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm very confused!!! So I don't need to do weekly planning sheets on a certain topic such as senses which is what we've being doing so far this term" do I now observe what children do then plan activities for them to develop learning. If any one can help me or send me a copy of their plans I would be most grateful. :-)))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) playgroup5s, its a more natural way of working with children, find out what they like and then plan around that. Each keyworker observes her children and then plans for the following week based on that. for example last week a child brought in some plastic dinosaurs from home so his keyworker used some non fiction books to find out what they were called and what they ate, this week she planned to have some fossils available for him to explore and used some egg shaped pebbles as a provocation for making up a story, next week we are looking at making some papier mache eggs with dinosaurs inside that we can 'hatch' and are reading 'harry and a bucket of dinosaurs'. As part of our other continuous provision we are also looking at 'apples' as a preparation for 'Apple Day' on the 21st October so 'topics' still have their place just not so prominent. Hope that makes sense ( and that I've got it right!) just edited this to say that each keyworker picks one or two of her chidlren each week to provide focussed activities on Edited October 10, 2012 by max321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 We have 24 children per session, and 50 children on roll,children do different sessions throughout the week, we are finding planning by childrens interests difficult to fit everything in, we are also a pack away setting so stuff has to go away everynight including the displays/notice boards. Its working out how to put it on paper and implement this in the session....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 we had an advisor in and were told stop observing just evaluate our practise and children's interest - I am finding it difficult not to observe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 we had an advisor in and were told stop observing just evaluate our practise and children's interest - I am finding it difficult not to observe. I still observe, if nothing else it gives us evidence if we need to refer to other agencies such as SLT. I like the overview that an observation can give and it gives us something to reflect on when making next step judgements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 We have 24 children per session, and 50 children on roll,children do different sessions throughout the week, we are finding planning by childrens interests difficult to fit everything in, we are also a pack away setting so stuff has to go away everynight including the displays/notice boards. Its working out how to put it on paper and implement this in the session....... I have 20 children per session and 47 on the roll, none of our children are full time and some only do 3 hours per weekso in a similar situation and we do manage to plan using childrens interests, but I have to say it is not always easy so we just focus on a few each week, 1 or 2 per keyperson. I am not packaway but planned activities are only bought out when needed, ie during the 10 minutes of 'choosing time' or as part of the enhancement ot the continuous provision or we get things out if the interest is spontaneous as an aside, I don't have any notice boards or displays to contend with as the children just hang their art work on the wall and then take it with them when they go home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19802 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 we had an advisor in and were told stop observing just evaluate our practise and children's interest - I am finding it difficult not to observe. Ha Ha, thats because you are addicted ifyouarehappy! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Really no observations??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 When doing PLODs which directly follow on from an observation of CI play - do you develop their learning in whatever area and aspect the play is already focused on or do you try to include the aspects that those particular children need more support with? E.g. child is outdoors playing with bat and balls with success (much better than the other children) - would you develop this play by supporting this particular skill and helping to improve this? Or would you think 'what are the aspects that he needs to work on?' - refering back to longer term 'next steps' that have been considered e.g. number skills and try to combine the 2? I have always understood that we should do the latter but I think I may be making things over complicated for myself (not surprisingly!) and should really be going more with extending and developing the learning that the children are currently engaged in order to support their development across all aspect regardless of whether they are within that child's next steps. Then 'target' the 'next steps' at specific times? I'm sure that doesn't make sense, but I'll see what you all think!! Green Hippo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Whatever you call it would you honestly not be thinking "what can I do to support this child to move forward?" or especially in reception "how can I support this child towards the ELGs", (try telling any headteacher in the land that you aren't considering how to ensure progress and see what response you get)? It's part of all our jobs to educate children. This is not a haphazard, let them learn by osmosis, they'll just pick it up as they go along pedagogical approach. Everyone is thinking how can I support them to do unaided tomorrow what they need support with now. I can't walk into a room without making observations!! I don't think for one minute "observation" has gone - what I want to go is the endless wandering around with packs of post its or clip boards "doing" observation when in fact it's just wasting time and trying to write down things already known or have seen a thousand times. The spirit of the review, for me, was about this type of practice. I believe practitioners working directly with children most of the time (quoting the 2004 EYFS guidance!) is what Tickell was after and not being distracted by the monumental industry that observing and writing it up had become. My advice to practitioners is: Collect what is important, analyse what it tells you and plan what is needed to move children on to the next milestone. Where you record that and how is ultimately down to the setting/individual. I also think there are formative next steps in the immediate sense of "I saw this today, how can I develop it tomorrow" and the longer term summative sense: "tracking tells me this group of children are emerging into the 30 - 50 month developmental stage, what can I provide to support the emerging skill set they need to move towards securing 30 -50?". For me it's a balance of both and both are essential. Cx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_12960 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) i find this debate particularly fascinating....Am I the only person here who thinks that this level of confusion amongst experienced practitioners is rather telling? (and may I say, i am also struggling with the whole observe, plan evaluate cycle in our provision) Who/what has caused this confusion? To my mind having done NVQ3 and EYPS in the last few years, and endless training on the subject of this, I would have to say it lies mostly with poor teaching of the area. Incredible, given this is central to all that we do and yet the area that so many of us find so very difficult. Some blame must also lie with the orriginal and revised EYFS and how it was interpreted by Ofsted and LEA advisors. I would also say that I lay some blame on the "airy fairy" development matter statements that leave far too much open to the interpretation by the key worker....very hard to decide if a child is emerging, developing or secure within an age range without tangible examples to show what any of this actually means! I too had an early years advisor in recently and am now trying yet another new approach that I am struggling with................... ! Ps is recording tracking on a termly basis summative or formative? Had to argue this with my advisor and frankly just gave up as am totally convinced they were wrong! Edited October 13, 2012 by eyfs1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2418 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 My feeling about EYAT' and their advice is that it is just that - advice ! If you are doing something that works for your children in your setting and it's getting results then why keep changing it ? I have had 6 different EYAT's in the last 4 years - if I changed and followed their 'advice' to the letter every time I would have lost the will to live by now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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