AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 why oh why towrds the end of term am i having issues!! We have a parent who is driving me mad....and believe me i have the patience of a saint Child started with us in September....lots of issues.....very difficult child but her parents are driving us mad, i am nearly at the point of telling them to go and find somewhere else! They are causing all the staff stress and i had the child's keyworker in tears this afternoon saying that she does not want to work with them any longer as she is worried that someday the child will tell the parents something untrue and they will believe her. (we record as much as we can and have good safeguarding in place but!.........) Little bit of background. The family is not english and have no family over here. Their english is good but their delivery is not!! They are very demanding expecting long feedback every day with details of exactly what the child has done and what she has learnt! If we say she has done something on wed by thursday she will come in repeating it verbatim (no understanding of what she is saying just repeating) She is not toilet trained and we have asked that this is started, explained how to do it, talked till we are bue in the face about it etc ....but still no further (she is nearly 4!) They are determined that she needs to learn the alphabet and her numbers despite the fact that she is unable to comprehend or create an independent sentence of more than 3 words. I have dicussed all of this, i have given him copies of all the paperwork, i have had about 30 meetings with him this term (we rarely see Mum because she looks after the younger one....who has similar issues!) so did her feedback with dad yesterday (myself and keyworker...we have stopped having one of us with him as we don't trust him) Spent 40 minutes explaining that we need to follow the salt guidelines, that she needed to be toilet trained, that she needed to work on her PSe skills etc, Dad argued all the points but we stood firm and he agreed. Today have this written on her feedback...... understands she likes messy play but i would suggest engaging her in constructive play naming numbers/colours/letters etc etc etc !!! argggghhhhh help i'm losing the plot...what would you do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hi well it sounds like you have listened, suggested and supported this family. Sometimes you do have to hold your hands up and say this is not working out. Explain that you feel the setting appears to be unable to fulfil their needs and signpost them to the Children's Information Service for other local providers. Maybe once you make this clear he may either have a rethink or withdraw the child. Also remember this is not a reflection on you as practitioners infact quite the opposite, just sometimes it doesn't work out. Wishing you all well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Hi well it sounds like you have listened, suggested and supported this family. Sometimes you do have to hold your hands up and say this is not working out. Explain that you feel the setting appears to be unable to fulfil their needs and signpost them to the Children's Information Service for other local providers. Maybe once you make this clear he may either have a rethink or withdraw the child. Also remember this is not a reflection on you as practitioners infact quite the opposite, just sometimes it doesn't work out. Wishing you all well. Thanks fredbear....the problem with me is i don't like to give up.....i always say my fault is that i am more stubborn than a 3 year old! He said today that he thought i had a problem with his daughter because she always comes back saying my name and then NO! ...this child says no as her default answer i have been working on her saying yes with a smile. He said that she obviously recognised me as the one who was tough on her :angry: You may be right about giving up .....he is making the whole team miserable I have only ever asked one person to leave in 15 years ...and that was by mutual agreement. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7120 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'm with fredbear, I'd suggest that as they are unhappy with your settings ' learning' style maybe a different type of setting would suit the families needs better, maybe you could invite your early years advisor into a meeting with parents to back up the way you do things and why, have a parent that as soon as they walk towards the door I'm thing 'what now' but nothing like your problem.....good luck, hope you get it sorted one way or another x 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_534 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 How about calling in your local PDO. If may help to get someone outside of the setting to help you with this parent, then if anything goes further you have someone who knows the history. As for the parent give them the link to letters and sounds and stick to your guns. Tell him you only teach what he wants when the child is ready and in your opinion she is not ready. Christmas should be about having fun with the children not this. Good luck 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_39602 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 keep calm and carry on FM - i know where your coming from - I have had similar issue with parent - from the initial phonecall I knew we would have problems but despite this she sent her child to us - child settled well but mum emphasised her daughters intelligence and thirst for learning and due to her own experiences with the education system wanted her doing writing , reading etc and she had was not even 3 ! I emphasised our settings practice and learning through play etc etc - child settled really well and then attendance became very erractic. I spoke to mum as there was so many excuses - she said she was not happy but would go dance etc with no problems , i explained that she knew how well her child seperated and tried talking to i was blue in the face but every time she had an answer- my final conversation in a warm professional manner was that if she really felt her child was unhappy I was not sure if she was at the right setting for them both - and that her funding could not be transferred for the remainder of term but we needed notice but funnily enough mum starting bringing her in and said 'I know why she is happy to come ,its because your practising for the play ! I revelled in saying really we have only started yesterday!! Good luck x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_39602 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Just a thought is it a cultural aspect with parent as some cultures put a lot of pressure on children and expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 my advisor is already aware of this family...i gave her a heads up some time ago because i was so worried about their reaction to everything! i have also flagged them up with my committee chair and with my trustee who deals with safeguarding ! (though they obviously don't know all the details!) Just a thought is it a cultural aspect with parent as some cultures put a lot of pressure on children and expectations this is definitely a factor and dad is doing a PHD also! but we have this with many of our parents, they usually come round to my way of thinking i really wouldn't worry so much about this if she wasn't so VERY behind her peers.(it probably didn't help that she punched me i the eye and slapped me round the face when i spoke to dad the other day! :blink: this is a child who needs very basic stuff not a PHD of her own!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_6008 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 If you want to try to keep the child and work with the family, could you try using the request of naming numbers/letters/colours, and combining it with the 'messy' play you know she needs? ie, showing him your plans showing that from making and playing with playdough his daughter will use literacy pre reading skills to 'read' a recipe with pictures of what's needed, numbers as she helps count 2 cups of flour, colours as she helps chose which paint to add to the playdough for the colour, the size language as the children mould the playdough into big snowmen and little snowmen... I find it helps us to try to find out about the early education expecations of our families home countries and to talk to the families about why they want their child in preschool in this country, when they are willing to have that conversation with us, anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 If you want to try to keep the child and work with the family, could you try using the request of naming numbers/letters/colours, and combining it with the 'messy' play you know she needs? ie, showing him your plans showing that from making and playing with playdough his daughter will use literacy pre reading skills to 'read' a recipe with pictures of what's needed, numbers as she helps count 2 cups of flour, colours as she helps chose which paint to add to the playdough for the colour, the size language as the children mould the playdough into big snowmen and little snowmen... I find it helps us to try to find out about the early education expecations of our families home countries and to talk to the families about why they want their child in preschool in this country, when they are willing to have that conversation with us, anyway! Although i understand where you are coming from Lyanne there is a bit of me that refuses to give in...we agreed with him that toileting and SALt targets were the things to work on. The literacy skills are a bit of a red herring really as he has taught her the alphabet by rote and when i said she had no phonic understanding he said she knew the songs(aaa for apple etc )...she has NO understanding of what she is doing.. We have lots of children from different cultures so i make sure i have a long conversation when they start(and before) about the Ethos of our pre-school and learning through play (which is our strapline) i make it clear that if they want formal learning and worksheets they need to go elsewhere. Im just so frustrated....sorry to rant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_6008 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Although i understand where you are coming from Lyanne there is a bit of me that refuses to give in...we agreed with him that toileting and SALt targets were the things to work on. The literacy skills are a bit of a red herring really as he has taught her the alphabet by rote and when i said she had no phonic understanding he said she knew the songs(aaa for apple etc )...she has NO understanding of what she is doing.. We have lots of children from different cultures so i make sure i have a long conversation when they start(and before) about the Ethos of our pre-school and learning through play (which is our strapline) i make it clear that if they want formal learning and worksheets they need to go elsewhere. Im just so frustrated....sorry to rant! Sorry, I'd skipped that she has a SALT working with her! :blink: (My 9yr old was having a not going to bed night, when I really wanted an early night!) Definetly, SALT and toileting have to be the priority. I have been there before with children who can point to any number on a poster up to 100 and tell us the number but can't count 3 cars... My friend works in a Montessori nursery in an independant school, where the learning seems very formal, but they expect children to be toilet trained and able to speak clearly before they start there... And if you can afford the fees and uniform for there, you'll be happy with that, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 well i have decided to confront him today and see what we can sort out. I will take her on as my key child(not that i need any more!!) i think part of all of this is that he is aware that she is not where her peers are.....but he's trying to put a 'plaster' on it rather than sorting out the underlying issues. Lets hope he doesn't complain to ofsted....i've been inspected 3 times in the last year because of the move etc...i really dont want another one! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Hope it all foes well today. I think you've probably hit the nail on the head, dad knows she isn't performing like her peers and he's probably feeling a bit of loss! Many years ago my tutor told me when parents demand that their two year old write their name, to remind them their Childs age in weeks, 104 weeks seems younger than two years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 You poor thing - I really feel for you - hope today has gone well.......xxx I have just one terribly 'pushy' parent - I have talked til I'm blue in the face - provided lots of written info too - but still the same - such a shame this is not what this child 'needs' at all - she (parent) writes such lovely comments in her learning journey and contact book .....but they all end with what she would like to see - (and she won't be getting any of it in my setting) :blink: P.S. I know what you mean about 'admitting defeat' - doesn't sit well with me either! :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Knowing when to let go is a strength not a sign of failing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Knowing when to let go is a strength not a sign of failing I know! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 ok ...well im still alive ...and i didn't shout (nearly though!) I asked him in, we had our say, suggested he might like to look at other settings! told him he had upset his daughters key worker so much that she didn't want to work with him! (ooh that hit the spot!) did he have a problem with us etc etc I took a member of staff in with me as moral support (she sat there with her mouth open for most of it ) It took an hour and a half but i think we may have got somewhere...unless he doesn't turn up on Monday. He is obviously concerned about his daughters progress and has been looking up asd online (which i suspect is the right diagnosis) this gave me the opportunity to talk about her difficulties and what we are doing and reiterate many times the maths/literacy no go policy....until we have the language skills in place etc. We ended by me giving him an iep for him to look at with Mum so that we can choose 4 targets that we ALL stick to and insisted that the first one was toilet training. So we'll see how it goes, if this doesn't work then nothing will. We shook hands and he said how much his daughter had learnt since being with us, much more than they had expected and that they were very grateful <_< ....funny way of showing it Anyway cross fingers! Oh and thank you all for your support....sometimes you just need to talk things through :wub: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well done you! :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well done. I bet the staff member will be telling the rest of the staff how awesome you were. Lets hope dad see's this is the best thing :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Dont struggle on your own FM, where is the TAC/CAF, local children's centre practitioners and all those other professionals that should be working alongside you to ensure that this child's and parents needs are addressed. Been in your shopes before and I spoke to the parent about getting extra support for the child, parent agreed and I brought in everyone and anyone that could support. Both the child and the parent got the support the needed. Parent had an outreach worker from the children centre visit at home and 'educate' the parents about Developmentally Appropriate Practice, they were encouraged to engage with local Satadads Sessions, this helped dad to 'relax' a bit as he spoke to ther parents about his child's development etc, etc. All this networking and getting other professionals to support not only improved my relationship with the family but I felt more confident in signposting when I had tried everything in my power. Children Centres are a great resource for early years practitioners too - shame they are dying breed.... Hope it gets better for you but dont go it alone when it gets tough..theres people out there to support you in ensuring the child reaches her optimal development. I like that you dont give up - you have some serious 'grit' in you! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Thanks for your support Christine. I agree people should not suffer alone,,,,i have a fab team behind me, unfortunately my deputy is on holiday. I have a lot of experience especially with sen children which is just as well as i have 10 at the moment! In our area (we are a small lea) we have limited access to childrens centres and they rarely work with us!...if i want a caf done or get a TAC together i would need to do it myself! and if i want to get support for parents then i would have to sort it out alone!......please don't get me wrong i quite like it that way, i have worked in this borough for so long i know who to go to (i also work with 2 other borough's as we are on the border). My best support however is here. I can ask any questions i like without fear of appearing stupid and i can keep my anonymity in case i want to say something controversial (as if!) but thank you for your post it all helps to make me feel better about the situation.....which i hope is now sorted but only time will tell. Monday could be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_39602 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 well done FM - you have played your part and lets hope your audience appreciated and review your professionalism with a standing ovation x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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