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Top up fees?


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You are right eyfs1966, PVI's should never have agreed to enter the scheme- however when we first did it was fantastic as our fees were £4 per morning and the funding was £6-60 per 2.5 hour mornings- a no brainer! However this is something like 15 years ago and we weren't governed by anywhere near the amount of rules and regulations that we are now. (incidentaly our funding is now £10.80 per 3 hour morning and our fees are £15 per 3.5 hour mornings) I cant actually remember when our fees overtook the funding but it was quite a while ago and 2 years ago we introduced a 3.5 hour morning to enable us charge more.

 

 

That's exactly right - that's how we all got 'suckered' into it in the first place..........

 

Honestly when you try to explain this cranky system to anyone not involved in EY they can't believe it - I have tried that out on my sister (an intelligent lady) - I'm sure she thinks that I have somehow got it all wrong! :o :blink: :(

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We serve some really poor families and there is no way they would be able to pay a top up fee. Free should be free and I feel really strongly about this. Parents are shocked when I tell them how much we lose per child per hour as soon as they get funding, but they have never offered to pay! When there is such a lot of nursery competition around us it is just not something we could do either. There is a nursery locally that has asked for a 'voluntary' top up fee but it upset quite a few people. We charge £4 an hour and the funding rate has been stuck at £3.52 for the last few years....

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I agree free should mean free too...but if this is the governments wish then they should fund it or in the very least sort out issues that are in place to support genuine families in need such as the fraud around tax credit claims...again a whole other thread! Wasn't this originally introduced to allow settings to charge a little more and pay staff higher wages!

 

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Yes free should mean free but if it also means the closure of a setting its not right is it? We are providing free places at the expense of how much we can pay the staff, the resources we can offer the children, which training we can pay for and how much we pay for every single thing. I appriciate there are families who couldn't afford to pay, my comment about them using parental choice was tongue in cheek, but we should at least make them aware of the finances. Better than have them wonder why we haven't replaced the broken shelf unit, why we cant replace the printer and why we ask for donations of fruit and consumables.

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Surely if they do that no way would we be able to lower the costs for parents as the ones still paying will have to be charged more......mind you I guess when the 2 year old funding goes cross country for a lot of us there won't be anyone paying own fees and we'll be totally over a barrel.....and what with paying our higher qualified staff and having to chip into pensions soon too,More settings will close...and then where will all their funded 2 year olds go, they're already struggling to place the extra they need to now and practically begging settings in our area to agree to take them.....so the point in all this would have been ???

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Sunnyday, you are right- The other day I was moaning about how on earth companies like us were supposed to manage when the pension thing kicks in. Well you'll just have to put your fees up- he says. Well 30 minutes later I gave up. Even he, after all this time of (not) listening to me couldn't seem to grasp the concept of how we are funded.

 

Laura, yes free should mean free however I have never ever told anyone or even wanted to tell anyone that a place at my preschool is free! It's not and cant be, if everyone at my setting got a really & truly free place we wouldn't last a year.If the government is truly committed to offering FREE places then they need to up the rate. There is only so little staff will work for and only so much we can charge the parents that have to pay fees.

fredbear- unfortunately I have the same horrible sneaking suspicions as you and others. If the ratio is raised I truly fear the funding will lower.

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Can anyone tell me if we can limit the no of funded children that we take in my full daycare.......holidays are a nightmare....we have 2 other sessional settings in our village,but most parents want to some to us...:(but with 46 out of 58 of our children funded.,....75% of those DO NOT ATTEND during the 14 weeks unfunded......I am thinking of limiting the no I takeand to fill the gaps with fulltime children which is what we provide......half term just gone and had to put staff off here and there as hardly any children,,,,,i know the funding payment would be higher...but galls me to be nearly empty for 14 weeks will settings nearby that can provide just the 15 hrs that sooooo many parents only want x

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We have no emphasis on how many we should take so it continues to be a business decision ( which at times is hard as children are involved and you want to help them all)

 

Have you been given a number you have to take? If not then use your judgement for the best way if protecting your business.

Would any staff like term time only contracts?

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from what I recall reading in birminghams terms and conditions, we have to give a free place if eligable, but the council has ultimate responsibility for ensuring all children have a place somewhere. We don't have to provide any funded places if we don't want to, although then of course we would miss out on funding money!

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We suggest they reduce the numbers of hours they have and then they can spread them across the holidays so no dip in funding, not sure if that can be done in all authorities or just a somerset thing. We don't offer a term time option so they have to spread the hours out or pay for the extra hours over the limit of entitlement. Somerset have,from Jan, allocated the whole 570 to each parent to use as they wish so any unused hours can be now be taken into the next term so this has made things even better for parents who choose to spread hours to keep costs down

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