AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately, three year checks aren't a myth here in Birmingham, but as they take 5/6 months to answer questions about it, I wasnt in any rush, now it seems we have to pay, the brakes have been applied a bit harder Edited July 2, 2013 by Rea
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 A few more phone calls I guess on my list of to do's .
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 Yep, mine too. I love being a volunteer! 1
AnonyMouse_14766 Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I was furious this morning when I spoke to Ofsted to check that volunteers don't have to pay for DBS checks and was told that committee members do have to pay as they are managing a setting, and to check with Capita! On the Welcome page of http://ofsteddbsapplication.co.uk it tells you who has to register online with Capita and pay for the pleasure. I've got 3 new committee members who will be expected to pay £52.10 with their debit/credit card to apply for their DBS online! We're already struggling financially and now we're going to be landed with over £150 for something we used to get free and haven't budgeted for. Also, our committee changes almost completely every year as children leave for school so next year could be far worse. What with this and the Development Matters mysteriously being moved it is hard to be positive about the future of pre-schools, family life and childhood.
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Posted July 3, 2013 Well, its given me the jumpstart I needed to find an alternative way of running.
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Posted July 3, 2013 I've just spoken to Ofsted, they said as committee members are the resgistered body, they have to pay. I said that wasnt fair, I'm a volunteer and the Charity commission say we cannot be paid, I weouldnt be able to afford it. The lady suggested the setting pay! I told her they cant afford it either and asked why committee cannot be given volunteer status. She suggested I phone DfE. Spoke to DfE, who said committee members are volunteers and so are free! 2
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Posted July 3, 2013 I phoned Capita. Since yesterday they've been having meetings about this, according to them committee are no longer free but meetings are ongoing. I suggested I wait then until I know for certain and the man said it would be a good idea.
AnonyMouse_22106 Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 I'm a little surprised that the PLA haven't got involved with this for us committee run groups - don't suppose anyone has contact their development worker by any chance?? I will try and contact mine but she's part time and does take awhile to come back to me sometimes
AnonyMouse_7120 Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 what a crazy situation......maybe ofsted and DfE need to communicate and get the message straight....and in our favour of course, ofsted seem to be on to a nice little earner if capita only actually charge 7.50 admin, yet ofsted want £50+ , also wonder why we cant actually use our own body ( ours in TMG) to carry out committee checks if they're good enough for staff checks...........and i dont get why committee members who are parents need checks anyway, they can come in as parents whenever and we dont get all our parents checked (yet )ggrrrrrrr
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) I've just spoken to Ofsted, they said as committee members are the resgistered body, they have to pay. I said that wasnt fair, I'm a volunteer and the Charity commission say we cannot be paid, I weouldnt be able to afford it. The lady suggested the setting pay! I told her they cant afford it either and asked why committee cannot be given volunteer status. She suggested I phone DfE. Spoke to DfE, who said committee members are volunteers and so are free! Hope you got the name of th peron you spoke to. Did you ring Ofsted right back and tell them? Edited July 3, 2013 by Cait
Guest Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 I'm a little surprised that the PLA haven't got involved with this for us committee run groups - don't suppose anyone has contact their development worker by any chance?? I tried to tweet them this morning but haven't had a response. However I see Maz and Rea may have done better by tweeting Under5 magazine instead. Foolishly I thought the main twitter account would be the one to use - obviously have a lot to learn about Twitter!
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Posted July 3, 2013 I tweeted everyone this morning, repeatedly! No Cait, I didnt get a name and I didnt ring them back.
AnonyMouse_63 Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 I think if committee members have to pay (or the setting has to pay) it will mean the end of many committee run groups. Like many other settings some of our committee members only stay a year and we have had two that have moved away from the area after only being on the committee for two months, so that would of been a real waste of money. I need to get three committee members DBS checked otherwise we will end up running illegally in September ......oh what a headache. I have never heard of any job where someone who volunteers has to pay to do so ...its ridiculous!!!!!!! I have also emailed Capita but not yet had a reply. Fingers crossed it gets sorted soon Carol
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 3, 2013 Author Posted July 3, 2013 I think they will end up as free. When I phoned there was a dedicated dial option for questions about volunteers, I suspect they're getting lots of calls about it
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 I tried to do a DBS check earlier this evening and halfway through the site went down for administration!!! Really annoying as my new staff member had come in specifically to do it.
AnonyMouse_7120 Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 This was the reply to my email from capita....... "Ofsted have stated in the past that committee members, treasures and trustees, etc are not entitled to volunteer status. This policy is currently under review by Ofsted. Until further notice, volunteers within these positions are therefore not entitled to a free DBS disclosure. If you require any further information, please contact Ofsted directly via the following email address: enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk."
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Oh right. Hmm. I have never paid for my committee and on the crb form where it said free I always ticked it. Well lets hope that common sense will prevail! 1
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Strikes me, that for many years, someone has been making a lot of money from all these checks that have been paid for.. when they are really volunteers... and that no one has realised this because Ofsted have been paying/ or the government have and no one has realised this is happening until they decide to make the settings pay... thinking aloud.. could they be checked as a volunteer before joining committee... register with dbs and they would then already have it done, before having to register with Osfted , would this be possible? or would they need another check as they would no longer be classed as a volunteer.... even though dfs says they are... think this really needs sorting! 1
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Posted July 4, 2013 Well!! After all my emailing, speaking and waiting, Birmingham Council have sent me a reply to my constant questions regarding it being a condition of funding that all settings renew all staff and committee CRBs every 3 years; The only advice I can give you at this moment is that it is best practice to renew CRB's regularly. We will be updating the NEF terms and conditions this September and are waiting for guidance from more great childcare to be able to determine our criteria. Cop out! I win! 3
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 I wonder how many actually did do the checks etc.. and will now feel angry about paying out.. or how many will not know and will be doing them in next few months for the .. pays to ask and stir a bit..
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Posted July 4, 2013 I think somewhere along the line someone decided as it wasnt a legal requirement, they wouldnt be able to make it stick. Time line Oct 12 - I asked about the legality and if any consultations had taken place Nov 12 - Ditto above plus sections from the Guidance to LAs from Government Mar 13 - Emailed the Boss after my questions still werent answered May 13 - Boss answered after a fashion, said my emails had gone to her spam folder May 13 - I asked, hypothetically, if a setting couldnt afford them what would the funding withdrawal procedures be July 13 - Ditto above July 13 - As posted this morning! During that time I was in contact with a man at DfE who gave me tips on what to ask and told me regulations. Lovely man, helped loads. After all that we're now faced with battling with Ofsted, Capita and the DfE; when is a volunteer not a volunteer? 1
AnonyMouse_31752 Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 ok well I don't know if this will help, my chairman has just had a conversation with Capita and they have said that volunteers who do not get paid, or get any qualification or experience from the setting can be done for just £8.10. Otherwise it is the full £52.10 for each member xxx
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 4, 2013 Author Posted July 4, 2013 Thanks Johanna not sure about the experience bit though, you can't do something and not learn from it can you? just have to keep it secret! 1
Guest Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Definitely a win Rea! That was how my LA backed down a few years back and we have heard nothing since. Privately they told us it was unenforceable and they dropped it.
AnonyMouse_31752 Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Thanks Johanna not sure about the experience bit though, you can't do something and not learn from it can you? just have to keep it secret! hehehe I was thinking the same but obviously some one up in the dusty government offices doesn't learn from any experience lol have told my lot to make sure they learn nothing!!! Edited July 4, 2013 by Johanna1 2
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 ok i have a reply from the dbs service. The question i asked was for carification about the cost of 'volunteer' dbs's for trustees/committees....the response..... Thank you for your email dated 27 June 2013, regarding volunteer checks. This has been passed to me for reply. I can confirm that the fee for a Standard DBS check is £26.00 and the fee for an Enhanced DBS check is £44.00. Standard and Enhanced checks for volunteers will be issued free of a charge by the DBS if the person undertaking the position meets the following criteria; "a person who is engaged in any activity which involves spending time, unpaid (except for travelling and other approved out-of-pocket expenses), doing something which aims to benefit someone (individuals or groups) other than or in addition to close relatives". However, it should be noted that some organisations/Registered Bodies charge an administration fee in addition to the DBS fee (where relevant). I can advise that the administration fee is not a set fee and can vary. Volunteer applications for which the DBS are not charging a fee can still incur an administration fee from the organisation or Registered Body. In closing, I trust you find this information helpful.
AnonyMouse_22106 Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Is it me or is that still as clear as mud?! Can we just say our committee members are parent volunteers, and therefore get it for free? I have to say I'm burying my head in the sand on this one at the moment
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted July 8, 2013 Author Posted July 8, 2013 Thanks for that finleysmaid. Thumperrabbit, if you're volunteering for an early years setting you have to use Capita, whereas in the past we could have used other companies to do the checks and they charge a fee other companies might not if you were volunteering at the local hospital or other non education bodySo our volunteers or us, will have to pay the admin fee
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