Fridge contaminated from lunch boxes?

[Guest]

Ok i know it has been soooo hot today but i was loosing the will to be polite by 09.20!!!!!

We hire our hall & have use of the kitchen. The kitchen has just been awarded 5 stars which invovled a lot of hard work to achieve. Today the repair man arrived with the church lady to fix the dishwasher at 09.00, this is our 1st entry time so i am greeting families, as i move church lady catches me to tell me handbags etc must not be placed on the side work top as they will contaminate the work surface, i apologise & remind her that she & lovely work man was blocking the way so all is forgiven.......... untill the children's lunch boxes start to arrive at the kitchen hatch - i load them into the fridge BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!! to be told that the lunch boxes/bags are contaminating the fridge . . how? i ask .... coz a dog could of licked one or had a wee on one at home church lady said..... ER REALLY so what do you suggest i do?...... parents should put all food stuffs into a clear bag which is named so as staff can remove it from the contaminated lunch bag and then put the plastic bag safely in the fridge. I replyed.... thank you for highlighting this situation to me i agree slight cross contamination to the fridge is possiable but highly unlikely. If you would like to put it in writing & address it to all of the parents i can give out the letter but i will not enforse the action. .... ROLL ON END OF TERM.

Apparently a setting near by has this approach. Thoughts please.

[Guest]

..... we are seeking funding for our own fridge.......

I did also ask the lady if she cleans the bacon packages that she brings in before loading them into the fridge as if not done then her food packages could well be contaminating the lunch bags????

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I suppose in theory she could be right but i wouldn't be able to say either way. I presume she can supply sterile bags can she? I use food bags when I've chopped the ferrets meat but i don't wash my hands in between chopping, getting the bags, putting the meat in and putting the bags away. I expect the whole roll is contaminated!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Rea

[Guest]

i dont completly disagree as the boxes can get put under the buggy therefore goodness knows what they could come into contact with. I guess my answer should of been " i will clean the fridge after use". I just wonder where this will all stop..... hopefully with my own fridge!!!!!

[AnonyMouse_5970]

We remove things that need to be chilled and put them in the fridge. They're not sterile but usually a whole lot cleaner than most lunchboxes which have been on the floor of the car, on the pavement, and goodness knows where else so don't really go in the fridge. We have always been advised to do this. Sorry... :1b

[AnonyMouse_30128]

Surely this is a moot point...you aren't eating food that is uncovered from the fridge anyway are you?

[AnonyMouse_5970]

The food we put in the fridge is things like wrapped sandwiches, yogurt etc. so it's not uncovered.

[AnonyMouse_15046]

If they really insist on you taking action why not place a new bin liner in the fridge each day and place the lunch bags inside them?

TBH I always assume that the inside of my fridge is contaminated because of all the hands which have handled the packages which are in there. For that reason I am careful to cover everything which isn't in skin or packaging.

Alternatively you could agree to wipe the fridge out with antibacterial spray at the end of each session.

 

It all seems a bit bonkers to me. I'd be far more worried if the lunchboxes weren't being refrigerated. That's a far greater risk to health.

[AnonyMouse_41997]

We use named zip lock bags as well. I suppose in theory you can't prevent all potential contamination as you don't know how parents prepare snacks. In addition unseen contamination from other users of the hall. All you can do is reduce the risk within your setting.

[AnonyMouse_5970]

Maybe it does seem over the top, but you should see some of the luncboxes that come our way.

[AnonyMouse_41997]

Maybe it does seem over the top, but you should see some of the luncboxes that come our way.

That reminds me of one of our family's and the beasties that stay at the back of their fridge :-)

[Guest]

I'd be far more worried if the lunchboxes weren't being refrigerated. That's a far greater risk to health.

Yes I agree, i was told today to just put them in the back room? this has came from the person who is very pleased with her new 5 star rating!!! I asked her if she would buy a sandwich from greggs that had been on the counter top from 9 till 1?

[Guest]

Sox, do you provide the bags & transfer items?

[AnonyMouse_41997]

Sox, do you provide the bags & transfer items?

A combination of both, some parents bring snacks in zip lock bags. We transfer the rest.

 

 

Edited to say if you have 5 stars did environmental health not see the lunch boxes in the fridge?

Edited July 17, 2013 by Sox

[Guest]

The kitchen has 5 stars, we use it and of course we have our f/hy .

[Guest]

Just to add my thoughts, our nursery fridge is really small and once milk is in it theres hardly any extra room for anything else.

 

We have always suggested using cold packs in lunch bags/ boxes and have had no problems with this!.

[AnonyMouse_4619]

Like Scarlettangel we also have a small fridge so parents are reminded to put a cool block in. we put nice little reminder stickers once a term if they havent got one. In school the lunch boxes are just left on a trolleys.

[AnonyMouse_13453]

Yes, Jo A we are the same. We never put lunch boxes on the table when we are emptying them either, as they will be bacteria ridden! They go on the chair to be emptied. This cuts down on a bit of potential contamination.

[SueFinanceManager]

Well I must weird then as I always wash lunch boxes when they come home as usually they are full of spilt stuff and crumbs......surely most parents wash their children's lunch boxes don't they?

 

I think I would do as Upsy suggested and put them all in a clean bin liner each day....cheaper than disinfectant spray extra and less work.

[AnonyMouse_3735]

many settings do not have fridges..

 

and schools certainly don't keep lunch boxes in a fridge... one I visited had them on a shelf in the sun... dread to think what could happen in those as some were not the cool bag style.. Did comment but they continued to do it..

 

If wanting to use the fridge I would do as upsy has suggested a new black bin bag inside the fridge and put them in that...

 

But we used to have parents use a coolbag style insulated lunch box with ice packs in them.. for these we had a huge cool bag from a cash and carry to put them all in..with a bottle of frozen water to keep it cool. double insulation then!

 

any without this we put a standard note into the boxes and had a few small ice packs for sale so they had no excuse that they could not find one to buy..

 

we also suggested freezing the drink or water in the bag, but these seldom defrosted enough to drink and remained ice blocks!

 

Our reasoning was to 'train' parents ready for sending packed lunches to school in a similar way.. knowing that they are often stored on a shelf or trolley with no temperature control :blink:

[AnonyMouse_8282]

We were told not to refrigerate lunch boxes by our EH.

She said it was the parents responsibility to provide a safe lunch box, and told us to remind them to use cool backs etc.

 

The reason being - the moment you put them in the fridge- you then take the responsibility of the safe storage of them, and as you haven't a clue as to their storage before they come in to us you could end up getting the blame for something out of your control.

(they may have been left on by the front door all-night breeding allsorts of bugs and beasties for all we know!)

 

I imagine this is why they are left out at school.

 

We keep ours in the coolest part of hall, in a plastic box with some frozen water bottles added.

[Guest]

What a mine field this has turned out to be!!! Good news though we have been granted some funds for our own fridge, this should help . Now i am thinking of ethier as already suggested and should happen anyway simply wiping the fridge out or storing them in little trays which the children could then take to the table so as not to share germs with the table covering. The hand cleaning rountine will have to change as currently the children collect their lunch box, then hand gell, then undo and eat lunch. As the lunch boxes are deemed such a hidous risk the children's hands are now full of germs as they have opened it themselves, so we will have to clean hands after opening boxes.

Gosh heaven help me then who gives out these lunch boxes as i now feel that a white suit, gloves and eye protection could be inorder just to save me from the outside of lunch box's contaminating me .

Thank you every one for sharing your thoughts and your practice with me, it is good to get other points of view. I do get it but it still seems so over the top!!!

[AnonyMouse_15046]

I think it's important to consider the risks involved here.

This is how I look at it.

 

The children we are caring for are very young and therefore more vulnerable to serious illness or death from food poisoning.

If I put a lunchbox in my fridge I am likely to introduce bacteria but, as this can also happen from food packaging, I am careful to cover everything and assume that my fridge is constantly contaminated anyway. I don't feel that the risk of serious harm to anyone's health is significantly increased by this.

If I don't put a lunchbox in my fridge the food in it may spend the morning growing food poisoning bacteria because the parent hasn't included an ice pack or has not included a large enough one. The result of this in my personal opinion is a significantly increased risk of death or serious illness to the children in my care.

Therefore, in my opinion, it is better to keep the food safe than the fridge sterile.

I don't tend to worry too much about lunchboxes going on tables because the small number of bacteria ingested by children from touching them is no more likely to harm them than the bacteria already on their hands, clothing, chairs, etc and those who suck their thumbs and fingers all morning probably have had many, many more.

 

My concern is far more about preventing bacteria growing in food which is stored than ensuring that everything is sterile at the point of consumption.

I fully accept that, once they are at school, the lunchboxes won't be refrigerated but children become less vulnerable as they get older and I just make sure that parents are aware of the change. It is then between them and the school to arrange safe storage for their children's food and the responsibility is no longer mine.

I may be wrong because, to make this judgement, I can only use the information gleaned from a basic food hygiene course to make this judgement. In fact I'd be interested to hear what a more qualified person had to say.

I'd also be interested to hear if there is a minimum size of ice pack required to keep the contents of a lunch box below 5 deg C for three hours. I'd like to bet that plenty of lunch boxes stored at room temperature are above that well before lunchtime, especially in this weather.

 

[AnonyMouse_19733]

We have a five * kitchen and are fortunate to have a big enough kitchen to be able to have two fridges and use one larder fridge just for storing lunch boxes and nothing else (that's a lie 'cos sometimes we put 4 pint milk in the door). When children arrive in the morning they put them in the fridge themselves. But I do realise that we are luckier than most. :rolleyes:

[AnonyMouse_12805]

My children went to a school that did not do school lunches and did not have a school kitchen even, however stored in a room off the classroom that used to be the kitchen was a special locked fridge that only 1 or two people could open for the 'free' school packed lunches that used to come in. Often there was only around 3 or 4 lunches in there (sure there are more now) but nothing and I mean nothing else was ever put in there- the head said the rules governing this was really, really strict.

We dont refrigerate as we have all weird and wonderful shaped lunch boxes and would never get all of them in. I was told by EH (sometime ago now) that packed lunches were the responsibility of the parent - which is why the schools dont refrigerate- and the reasons above. I also find that with the controlled temp of our fridge at work - I cannot eat my lunch when it has been in there as it is far, far too cold!! If the milk comes straight from the fridge the children often moan it's too cold.

Having said all that IF we were already putting bags into the fridge I would carry on doing so. What are you going to do to stop the outside of your 'clean' bin bags not having any contamination on them? Although I kinda understand what they are saying here. We put our children bags/boxes on the tables so as they come into the room they can see where to sit. Making me think now though as the tables are always cleaned just before they come in. Hmmm.............

[AnonyMouse_13453]

Just put them on the chair so they know where to sit, like we do. The plate is already on the table so they unpack from the chair, move the bag to the floor and sit down.

[AnonyMouse_39602]

we do not have the space in our fridge to store lunch boxes - i bought freezer bags ( for frozen shopping ) they can be zipped and keep cool ,all lunch boxes placed in there on arrival with ice blocks - we ask parents to put in ice block in the lunch bag as well -

 

Handbags are placed in a basket on work top - but this area is not a food preparation area and all surfaces are anti bac cleaned before any food prep and correct cutting boards used - so not a problem