AnonyMouse_33773 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 I feel the urge to share these: http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm http://www.naturalchild.org/robin_grille/rewards_praise.html We don't praise children and they are independent learners. We have a boy with us who couldn't do a thing without calling out 'Look at me' or adding 'Aren't I clever?' after having given a correct answer. He was no risk taker with ideas and avoided a cognitive challenge if there was a risk of failure. After two terms of praise detox, he plays independently and is open to learning beyond his capabilities. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about this topic. Is there anyone else of you who don't say 'Good girl', 'Well done' and 'That's beautiful!'?
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 No. I'm afraid that I am firmly in the 'praise' camp................but not in the 'overkill' one. I was brought up by a father who continually called me 'stupid' and was rarely ever praised for anything. It affected me for all of my life, until he died in fact, when I decide to go for it, in the form of my Degree. We have children, we will always have children, who are never praised, no matter how much effort they put into things, no matter how hard they try and no matter what small, or large acheivements they make. Is it really a killer to say, 'I'm so proud of what you did there'? Or 'you were so kind when you shared that bike'............no, I love seeing a little face smiling because they know I appreciate something they have done, or have tried with. There are so many negatives in the world, I would loathe to see praise go out the window too. ( I also have very shy, unconfident parents who come into the group........and what a fabulous transformation to say to them..........'what a wonderful job you're doing, X is so co confident/kind........whatever it might be.........I have actually had parents burst into tears and say that nobody has ever said that kind of thing to them before) No, praise where praise is due............we all like to have our confidence boosted a bit! 9
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 sorry wildflowers i too praise and reward.I have read articles like this before (which im afraid are rather biased and unbalanced) There are some circumstances where you have to be more careful with praise but it is incredibly important that i send good messages to my children. My little ones with ASD for instance need to be praised for some compliant behavior...like good sitting /good playing etc because they get mixed messages and they need to be told when they are doing the 'right' thing. Praise comes in many forms and needs to be given genuinely (not willy-nilly) with honesty and with caution i also tell children if i feel they could do better too. It is an honest relationship in which my charges thrive...it works for us and i will not be changing any time soon 4
AnonyMouse_5970 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Narnia I think you hit the nail on the head with your descriptions of how you use praise. If we praise something specific ("you were so kind to share that bike") the child knows exactly what they did that was worthy of praise. The 'verbal tic' that the article talks about can become meaningless if churned out for everything children do. But I agree wholeheartedly. Praise where praise is due. 4
AnonyMouse_33773 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Posted July 18, 2013 Showing interest, giving importance to a child's efforts and being affectionate nurture a child. I don't think praise does. A child needs to be seen (have their feelings validated etc) - not judged! 1
AnonyMouse_64 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 I think this article sums up quite nicely how I feel and would tend to use praise.http://www.hanen.org/Helpful-Info/Articles/Good-job!-Is-Praising-Young-Children-a-Good-idea.aspx 1
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 When it comes to praise, what really irritates me beyond measure (especially when I hear myself say it) is when someone praises a child for finding the right answer or doing something correctly by saying 'good girl/boy'. Goodness is a completely different concept to correctness, and so I always wonder if the child might subconsciously think they are 'bad' if they don't know the answer or make a mistake. 1
Guest Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 Interesting debate but I am firmly in the praise camp but praise where it is due. I would never say good girl, clever girl, or well done but praise the action. I would be more likely to say ' I love the colours you chose in your picture' or 'I'm proud of you that shared your orange today' Deb
AnonyMouse_33773 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Posted July 18, 2013 Beau - thanks for the article. It describes what I do or wish to do. Our understanding is that the boy I referred to in my previous post has received 'person praise', as described in the article. Descriptive 'process praise' is what I would call to share interest in a child's learning. Ultimately we all want to support children to develop independent and creative thinking, don't we? So the question is not whether to praise or not. It is if our responses and interactions nurture this. Expanding on the topic is the related one about rewards. Praise can be verbal rewards. I also find rewards problematic...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 I have a rather lovely story about rewards today. We have a boy who is newly diagnosed with epilepsy. The medicine he needs to take is not nice...yesterday carer came in to say she was having an awful time trying to get him to take it and was worried that if he didn't take the full dose he would seizure (it had taken two of them to get it down him in the morning) . My senco cretaed a simple reward chart for him and off they went together to go and get some stickers from the post office (his choice of course!!) ...This morning carer came in and was nearly in tears saying how much it had helped and that he took the medicine first time no problem...he was very pleased with himself ! so without rewards would this have happened?
AnonyMouse_33773 Posted July 19, 2013 Author Posted July 19, 2013 I see the importance of rewards for children with SEN or extreme behaviour. My little ones with ASD for instance need to be praised for some compliant behavior...like good sitting /good playing etc because they get mixed messages and they need to be told when they are doing the 'right' thing. It's a complex topic that I just want us to discuss - that I feel that practitioners need to be reflective and sensitive about... We've had primary teachers coming out to visit, praising our children, when not needed. The children behave as if they feel valued and respected, and are growing independent and caring without it. It felt so wrong, as if they were patronised and belittled. It's the 'coming form above' attitude that disturbs me.
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 I do see the issue with a general comment that seems to 'trip off the tongue' when there really is no need as it is what they always do anyway. I also felt they were being patronised sometimes when this sort of thing happens. Rewards.. have their place, but I am a no sticker person unless a real need... they can be overused by some, and having experience of a unexpected reaction from my own son can see how much of a negative response they can cause in some of the children . ( at 4 my son worked out to get a sticker you had to be 'naughty' first and then be good... if you were good all the time you never got one.. he became a very difficult child for a while there! all because of a reward system in place at school in reception. he told me this when I asked why he was doing something he had never done before, he was a bright spark) But to me just as bad is that voice... you know the one.. bright airy, singsong, over the top that so many use with this age group.. That I hate to hear... some of those teachers TV videos had people like that in them.. I wonder why they feel the need to not speak to them as a little person and use that voice.. 1
AnonyMouse_26037 Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 But to me just as bad is that voice... you know the one.. bright airy, singsong, over the top that so many use with this age group.. That I hate to hear... some of those teachers TV videos had people like that in them.. I wonder why they feel the need to not speak to them as a little person and use that voice.. That voice really gets to me - I have a particular person in mind who often uses it with my class. I have to grit my teeth and frequently find myself muttering under my breath: "They're little, not stupid!" 3
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 Phew! - Thought it was just me that finds 'the special voice' unbearable! :1b
Guest Posted July 19, 2013 Posted July 19, 2013 this just goes a little off post but we have a lovely member of staff who sings about what she is doing all the time." oh lets clean the fish fish bubble bubble" "clean the chalk scrub scrub" We use songs to do things in general tidy up etc but after a while this loud and cheerful singing about everything really grates. She also uses the voice. Going back to post I still think there is a need for valid praise and reward call me old fashioned..
Guest Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 I have a 'look' does that count ! I'm a praise person , even as an adult I glow when I get told well done I would not praise a child with complex needs or SEN and not praise my other children on a problem solved
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 oh i KNOW that look! my Aunt has the same one....its called the WL in our family (withering look).....i have found myself recently 'patting' children on the head horrible habit...the children dont seem to mind but i'm really annoying myself :blink:
AnonyMouse_39602 Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 to praise means to give thanks - praise in my opinion is valuing a persons abilities , acheivements and nuturing them . Each child /person is dunique and therefore some may be praised differently depending on the individual. I love to say thank you for something that makes me smile whether that be sharing, speaking kindly or a wonderful creation. To be able to praise and give thanks to another person big or small can build the foundations for the future and in turn give them the boost, skilll todevelop this themselves and not take for granted the things people do for each other. on the other hand my mum used to say self praise is no praise at all - wanna bet - sometimes you have too because some people never get praised or learn how too x 1
AnonyMouse_33773 Posted July 29, 2013 Author Posted July 29, 2013 A warm appreciation, giving thanks, valuing someone for who they are, acknowledging the positive impact of their actions on others etc are all very important aspects of our work. It's the use of praise and rewards to get a child to do something or be different that concerns me. I don't think it fosters genuine kindness and love of learning.
AnonyMouse_15046 Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 I see the importance of rewards for children with SEN or extreme behaviour. I'd love to hear more about why rewards are more appropriate for that little boy because he had epilepsy.
AnonyMouse_39602 Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 A warm appreciation, giving thanks, valuing someone for who they are, acknowledging the positive impact of their actions on others etc are all very important aspects of our work. It's the use of praise and rewards to get a child to do something or be different that concerns me. I don't think it fosters genuine kindness and love of learning. i think you are referring to bribery Wildflowers we all learn in different ways and thoses who have not been given the opportunity or have not yet learnt how to do things may need carrots dangled from time to time but really what they are being taught and learning is karma - and for you to be able to pass on knowledge of something you must first learn the knowledge - we are all unique and respond in different ways - some struggle with things others can do easily or naturally .
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted July 29, 2013 Posted July 29, 2013 Nope, still hold my view on this. I really think it is important to allow children ( and adults) to bask in the glow of praise sometimes...........no, I don't mean the tripping-off-the-tongue-what-a-lovely-painting..type of stuff, but the kind that swells a little chest and heart. Goodness,let's not get rid of it please! 3
AnonyMouse_37030 Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 I am a fan of Alfie Kohn but also believe in praise (shall I sit on the fence then?)....what Alfie is on about is things like star charts etc and rewarding children with material items in response to achievement. I really struggled with my bright sons wondering why it was that "peter" (not his real name) got a play station for doing well in his SATS whilst my lads got a "Well done, I'm very proud of you". I also agree with not praising what should be acceptable behaviour however some children are not raised to know what this is so praise can help install the missing default. I however also know of many many adults who like Narnia would have thrived on their parents/carers just saying "You are clever well done". I am married to one such person who has been irrevocably damaged by his parents never showing any interest when he did well and quick to ire when he did wrong. I therefore believe in praising the effort and not the end product. So whilst I dont think a star chart will work for say toilet training (in the long term which is Alfie's opinion) I do believe that saying "well done what a clever boy" doesn't do any harm!
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