AnonyMouse_1469 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Forgive me if this topic has been covered while I was away, but right now i am feeling desparately angry and sad for this little boy in equal measures. You all know I care passionately about keeping children safe.........we all share that goal, I hope. So, make yourselves one promise today, for this one child: I will do everything in my power to keep every child I know of, safe and well to the best of my ability. If I have any questions that the parent/s cannot answer to my satisfaction; if I have one moment of doubt or questioning, I will not fail to contact those in higher authority to get those answers in order to protect that child. It is the very least that any child living in a so-called civilized society should expect. It is the least we should expect of ourselves. I hope you rest in peace Daniel. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 http://eyfs.info/forums/topic/37621-safeguarding-and-communication-working-together/?do=findComment&comment=364721 I'm still stunned Narnia that this could happen. Speechless, sad and frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_14268 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I listened with disbelief that this was allowed to happen and that this poor child slipped through the net. Yet again I ask where the hell were the people that where meant to help to safeguard this child?? I also vowed to myself whilst watching the news report that if I ever have concerns or doubts that I will follow them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) BBC2 Newsnight have just been discussing this. Daniel was first seen with a boken arm in January 2011. So many missed chances but the guy who inspects councils safeguarding explained, very sadly I thought, that a child like Daniel was probably one of many in just that school, hungry, not right uniform ect. Another panelist said two years ago a survey showed around 40% of teachers weren't clear on who to report to. Govt came under fire for not taking on all recomendations from previous report regarding early intervention. Edited August 1, 2013 by Rea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7120 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I think more needs to be done to educate the general public to what they should do if they suspect anything, I have recently had a neighbour of a child on a cp plan pass on a concern to a member of staff who passed it on to me, I passed it on but was told they can't act on second hand information and to tell the person to contact the police at the time (neighbour unaware of cp plan as obviously they're not privvy to that information) but the public are often affraid of the repercussions for their own family, especially neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I am also shocked by this terrible tragedy....but i am not surprised Having been involved with social services and a school over the last year regarding a case i can see how it could happen easily. The problem is no one wants to take responsibility for the issue and everyone is over worked and under staffed...there are children slipping through the net daily and they are just lucky not to be in Daniels position The one thing i would like to add to your pledge though Narnia is to be Tenacious....do NOT let a fear go keep on and on until you KNOW that it is being sorted. As with most of these cases people knew and had info...if they had shared and kept sharing this may not have happened. Lets try and get something positive done out of a terrible tragedy. Safeguarding should be seen as a high priority for everybody but it needs to be targeted information.....this is not about not giving cuddles or having two people change a child when it has a wet nappy....this is about information sharing and none of us should be afraid to do that. remember if you are concerned think to yourself if i am not going to do something today...then when am i going to do it??tomorrow , next week, next month???? WHAT IF? what if i'm right? what will hapen if i don't do something? and if i'm wrong....so what! rather a dented ego than a dented child! :angry: Ok rant over..... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 I have had reason to be tenacious about a child in my own setting.......................serious issues about neglect. HV was pretty laid back about it, but promised to go see the family......and didn't. I reported it to Social services, who told me to get HV to visit..............and he didn't, so I reported him. Suddenly, things moved. I am happy that this child is now under care plans and the family receive the support they need. But yes, I did have to stand my ground on the child's behalf.......but I am so glad I did. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) I could rant and rant about this........but I'm not going to....... Poor, poor little boy....... Breaking news is that the parents have been sentenced to 'Life' and will have to serve 30 years apiece before parole is considered.......I hope they get some of what they deserve in prison...... Just one thing that has been really 'bugging' me - is there a reason why 'people' - and I mean 'all' people don't report to the NSPCC - this is a genuine question........ Edited August 2, 2013 by sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I wouldnt go to them because I dont really know what their role is. They are a charity, so no direct Govt backing and I feel it should be someone in officialdom. I'm probably hugely wrong, but thats how I see them. More of a resource than the official body to report to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Rea - thanks for your reply....... I wasn't particularly clear (nothing new there) I wasn't especially talking about 'professionals' - although actually - if all else failed....... I used to be pretty active on the fund raising side of the NSPCC - believing that they are doing a grand job - I'm sure they are...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Wht is their role then, what could they do? Report it to the right people? Intervene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 A friend once became involved with the NSPCC when a mutual friend reported an incident that had happened in her home. They wrote to her, made an appointment to go and see her and spoke to everyone involved. They spoke to her daughter's school to check on her general well being and development and possibly to her doctor (can't be sure on that bit). They provided parenting support, including helping both parents to recognise the signs of stress and how to deal with it. Their input helped my friend make some crucial decisions about the environment in which her daughter was being brought up, and how she could become more assertive in ensuring that the conditions they all lived under at the time were appropriate. In this case, the child was thought not to be at risk, however the NSPCC really helped this family and as far as I'm aware nothing like this has happened again. So from that perspective, they're definitely doing a good job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks Maz, Hubby has donated to them for years but I always wondered what they can realistically do. I should have looked into it! Now I know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 As a postscript to that, I should say that at the beginning of this episode I called Social Care for advice, whilst my friend called the NSPCC. The social worker I spoke to gave me good clear advice, and explained what I needed to do to make a referral if I subsequently thought it necessary. My friend said the lady on the NSPCC helpline provided the same clear advice, but when discussing whether a referral was necessary, she also talked about personal responsibility and subtly made it obvious that she thought my friend should refer. She was kindly and understanding but ultimately my friend was left in no doubt about what she should do. It might only have made a couple of days' difference because I would have made that referral after speaking to our mutual friend again. I was subsequently able to support her through the following difficult days whilst she waited for her meeting with the NSPCC and I think the fact that she was being supported by a non-statutory body rather than Social Care helped her to view the episode more positively than she might had Social Care been involved from the first. It was still a harrowing time for her family to go through: they were very frank with her and her husband and asked them to confront some uncomfortable questions in order to ensure that their daughter continued to be safe and to thrive. Dealing with the NSPCC shouldn't be seen as being the 'easy' option. I wouldn't hesitate to contact them if I came across a child that I felt was in need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 30 years to the evil pair. I sometimes wish we had Americas sentencing, Castro received life plus 1000 years yesterday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Had a dreadful morning and spent ages on the phone getting advice from the SS team duty manager trying to carry out a CAF (first time for me as it's something the schools usually do but as it's school hols....) and supporting a distressed parent. Luckily our early intervention team in the East Riding are very supportive and will help me through the process and will chair the first Team Around the Family meeting for me. Came home and fell asleep and just logged on and feel justified in what I have done. Making referrals is horrible but how could anyone sleep if they didn't act on a concern. Surely these teachers laid and worried at bedtime and if so surely they should recognise they need to follow it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 30 years is a good start.........................though I suspect both of them will ask to be sent home to Poland to serve the sentences. I wonder if they would then have to serve all 30+ years there? I agree that America has the right idea.........'life' means exactly what it says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 We've been discussing on Twitter how we can make sure everyone knows what to do in the event of a concern. I'm thinking of putting this on our playgroups facebook page. I'd welcome any comments. After seeing two neighbours of Daniels on the news, both of who had suspicions something was wrong, I'd like to inform our parents of a few steps they might think about in a similar situation. In light of the very sad and tragic death of this lovely little boy, I and some acquaintances within Early Years have been wondering how we can get the message across that Child Protection is everyone's responsibility. I'll be working on it during the holidays but for now I thought I'd share just a few of the main points from the training which staff attend regularly. 1. Child abuse comes in many forms, you dont need to know all of the signs, a gut instinct can be enough. Daniels neighbours suspected something was wrong. 2. If you're not sure, watch and record for a couple of days or weeks, depending on what your fears are. But dont leave it. 3. Tell someone of your concerns. Chatting confidentially, not gossiping, can help clarify things. It could be nothing but what if it isnt? 4. Report it, or ask the person you've told to help you report it. We know reporting something of this nature is scary. You wonder 'what if I'm wrong?' But what if you're right? 5. If someone has reported it for you, follow it up. Ask them for outcomes, whats happening. Dont leave it, be a nuisance. Your concerns might be at the bottom of a pile of others. FOLLOW IT UP! 6. Playgroup have a very robust safeguarding policy and step by step procedures to follow. They will help if you need to chat or report. We're there for you too if you just need help yourself. 7. Lets spread the word. WHAT IF I'M RIGHT? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 thats really good Rea, I think I'll be taking that and using it as basis for a similar notice for my parents on the next newsletter. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) You're more than welcome. I really think its something we should share and be open about. Obviously there are confidential aspects we all know about, but parents, most of who dont know anything about safeguarding, are the first people we can reach. I've added another point too: 8. If a child tells you something that rings alarm bells, never tell them you will keep it secret, you cant. Telling them you can breaks a trust. It might need to be told to keep them safe. Edited August 2, 2013 by Rea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 We've been discussing on Twitter how we can make sure everyone knows what to do in the event of a concern. I'm thinking of putting this on our playgroups facebook page. I'd welcome any comments. After seeing two neighbours of Daniels on the news, both of who had suspicions something was wrong, I'd like to inform our parents of a few steps they might think about in a similar situation. In light of the very sad and tragic death of this lovely little boy, I and some acquaintances within Early Years have been wondering how we can get the message across that Child Protection is everyone's responsibility. I'll be working on it during the holidays but for now I thought I'd share just a few of the main points from the training which staff attend regularly. 1. Child abuse comes in many forms, you dont need to know all of the signs, a gut instinct can be enough. Daniels neighbours suspected something was wrong. 2. If you're not sure, watch and record for a couple of days or weeks, depending on what your fears are. But dont leave it. 3. Tell someone of your concerns. Chatting confidentially, not gossiping, can help clarify things. It could be nothing but what if it isnt? 4. Report it, or ask the person you've told to help you report it. We know reporting something of this nature is scary. You wonder 'what if I'm wrong?' But what if you're right? 5. If someone has reported it for you, follow it up. Ask them for outcomes, whats happening. Dont leave it, be a nuisance. Your concerns might be at the bottom of a pile of others. FOLLOW IT UP! 6. Playgroup have a very robust safeguarding policy and step by step procedures to follow. They will help if you need to chat or report. We're there for you too if you just need help yourself. 7. Lets spread the word. WHAT IF I'M RIGHT? Rea this is a fantastic idea and not something we've thought of from a wider perspective - thanks for sharing In Daniel's memory we will be 'pledging' with even more vigour - thanks Narnia. Had read the articles when it first broke months ago but cannot bring myself to read any more details/see the video etc- there are no words to describe how heartbreaking it must have been for him :angry: So many opportunities for this to have been avoided.. as an addition I think the system after the children are removed needs an overhaul (aside from too long being spent giving parents too many chances before they are removed making them 'unadoptable'!) - it's just not 'early years' enough for me in terms of having the child at the centre of everything (in my heartbreaking experience) - having too many transitions/moves, potentially leading to a 'what's the point in attaching, I'll only have to move again' way of thinking, no or little continuity through the phases, not enough time/focus spent documenting their life through photos, quotes etc showing them that they are/were special to people, giving them happy memories to take with them... and not just case histories, chronologies etc something for them to be precious about and feel valued - :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Our local safeguarding board had posters for parents information that we had up in the setting.. may help to ask locally if they have something , or could they produce something for all to have.. it gave a brief description of what to look for, and a number to call for even the slightest concerns pointing out it was all in confidence and could be anonymous... They did not speak to anyone as a go between though.. so the person who was worried was the one who had to call.. no good telling us as we could not do anything as a third party... but what we did do was support parents when they felt the need to call.. and I did help a couple of concerned parents call etc.. after they had seen the posters.. Ours was on a window so a lot of passers by also could see it... trying to reach as big an audience as possible... as an aside we also had similar but smaller booklets about abuse in the home.. for the people who needed a bit of information on asking for help and where to go... i know of at least one parent who picked it up, and spoke to us, eventually leaving the partner because of that leaflet.. saw her a few months later and she was a totally different person.. so happy and the children were happier too... so it is good to know that sometimes the smallest things can help if followed up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_5970 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Rea, I think this is a great idea and one that I will be 'borrowing'. To take it further, I wonder if it's possible to make up a flyer to give to people to pass on. Surely the more people you can inform, the better. I'm thinking churches, sports clubs, our local WI, toddler groups etc. If more people had known what to do when they worried/wondered about Daniel, things might have turned out differently. Tragedies like this happen over and over again. If the 'authorities' can't prevent it, maybe we should give it a go ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 That's what I was thinking! If the officially bodies really are stretched so much they haven't time or resources to keep checking, we can help to keep them focused or at the very least save people from feeling the guilt they must surely have now. The idea of flyers is good, we're in a church hall so can reach lots of people. I feel most people wouldn't know exactly what to do, I'd just like them to have some information and to know, as far as playgroup are concerned, they wouldn't be alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Rea - I think that's great.........forgive me for 'banging on' about the NSPCC..........but did you know that you can (if necessary) report and remain anonymous........it occurred to me that some people may be 'put off' reporting as they may fear 'repercussions' I am notoriously bad at adding links but here goes https://nspcc.org.uk Wonder if that will work :blink: Oh shoot - it doesn't - what am I doing wrong??? https://www.nspcc.org.uk Edited August 3, 2013 by sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 One of my facebook friends has pointed me in the direction of a project in Scotland called 'Safe, Strong and Free' which aims to support pre-school children and their families and believes that preventing child abuse is the whole community's responsibility. There are some resources on there, as well as information about the scheme which you can find online here. You might find some useful information for your leaflets and other materials. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_5970 Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Thank you Maz, what an interesting site. I've got the bit between my teeth now...if I come up with anything I will post a copy on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 So, a lot of hand-wringing and the powers that be have finally concluded that NOT ONE person is going to be suspended, or sacked over their failing of this poor little boy. What on earth do they have to do for this to happen?? Doctor: we weren't told there were issues. School: if only we had realised' Social services and Police: no-one..NO-ONE ever asked Daniel what his life was like...................really, I hope this sits on thier collective consciences for the rest of their lives. Rest in Peace Daniel. Many of us will never forget your name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8466 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 The major weak link in the system was that no-one asked Daniel what was happening in his life. We'll never know if that would have made any difference to the outcome - his six year old sister was coached by her parents to lie about what was happening when asked by the various professionals, and there's no guarantee that he would have made a disclosure. I haven't seen all of the coverage today, but I did see an unnamed professional on the news earlier saying that 'yes, they would have needed an interpreter' in order to talk to Daniel and find out what was going on. I can't really believe in this day and age that this kind of barrier exists - how was the school communicating with him on a daily basis? So many of the issues here bother me, and I'm afraid to say that I believe Daniel's will not be the last death we will see, followed by yet more public outrage and yet more reports that speak of lessons needing to be learned. In the meantime, there is an online petition asking for there to be a mandatory duty to report for all of those working with children. It wouldn't have saved Daniel in this case because no-one thought abuse was likely, however if you'd like to sign it you can find it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3139 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I've signed but I'm quite at a loss to understand why this hasn't always been the case. I've always been under the impression reporting was our job, recording concerns, expecting the worst, not believing parents without good cause and certainly not waiting for someone else to tell us they had concerns too. The school have said if they'd known more, but quite frankly I don't see how that would have made him thinner or hungrier or more bruised in order for them to react. I'm sick of hearing it every time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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