Guest Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 We have a parent who spoke to a member of staff last week asking us to get her son to do more craft activities, as he's not bringing anything home. He loves doing arty stuff at home, so she can't understand why he doesn't at Preschool? I don't think it's crossed her mind that maybe he's had enough of the crafty stuff at home and at Preschool he's free to explore different toys, activities and resources! We ALWAYS ask if he wants to take part in whatever the activity is, and he usually says "no thank you", so I am in no way going to force a child to complete a craft activity just for the sake of something to take home. So yes, parents' attitudes DO have to change - they need to understand it's all about the process and not the end product, but it's a hard thing to convince some of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19802 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Personally I feel that we are in the blessed minority in seeing and appreciating the WOW factor in children's efforts. Yes parents do need educating about what is and what isn't 'creativity' - what is a healthy lunch box, what is appropriate shoes to encourage independance, why it's not important to 'do a picture for mummy' everyday etc etc.... but you know without being completely patronising its hardwork! We write little anecdotes on the back to try and enthuse, about the skills, techniques, efforts of their child.... But here's a thing.....last school intakes first visit to school - the task: painting! One 4yr old chose pink. Reception Teacher: " tell me about your painting" (good question) 4yr old: "Its an elephant" - she said proudly! Teacher: "You chose the wrong colour, elephants are'nt pink they are grey" - she replied knowingly. : / Hey ho... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_43045 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi everyone Thanks for all your replies . Now feeling deflated as i usually love doing craft bits and i have never had a complaint from either parents or children. We are now under new management so there are going to be lots of changes. I have always made sure that the children always do their own work and i only help if they ask for help. We are only a small pack away playgroup with a small amount of art/craft bits and my concern is that all the resources will be used up and there wont be any money to re stock !!!!!!!!!!!!. The times we have not done an activity the children seem unhappy as there is nothing to take home. There is free painting and "MARK MAKING" out but not all children go to it . Oh well the children seemed to like the spiders. going to curl up and sulk with a hot cup of tea and look up child base art activities !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks again for your input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19782 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Chrissie, please don't get down about all of this. It's sooo easy to fix and there will still be occasions for you to instigate a little adult led stuff, most of us relent at some time be it Christmas, Mother's Day or whatever! As for supplies, shop around, use your initiative, we use quite a lot of recyclable stuff so you could get something for nothing -mask your parents to contribute boxes etc. if they don't already, i tend to say small ones because of storage, even if we flatten big cereal boxes, they are cumbersome for small hands. you can explore ways of fixing these things together, but steer clear of saying let's make a ............, just let the children loose with cellotape, treasury tags, masking tape all that kind of stuff. You could explore different paint techniques perhaps using rollers, printing, paint mixing, make your mark making area really special can you add a home made letter box? make containers the children will be drawn to - cover boxes in wrapping paper with their favourite characters on etc., similarly make note paper with stampers of their fav. characters on have envelopes and real stamps you can buy real stamps for 1p each at the post office . If children aren't using an area you have set up ask yourself why? Then change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_43045 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Thanks its been a tough few weeks at work with lots of changes just feeling sorry for myself i guess. I love my job but at the mo everything i do they dont like !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will spend half term getting some ideas that are CHEAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for your ideas and support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_47736 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Ah I'm really sorry to make you feel like that, please don't let us make you feel bad! Not sure on how to source stuff cheaply but have a few ideas: is there a printing factory or any other business nearby that has waste paper you could use? Envelopes are a good resource, ask staff and parents to bring in used ones and junk mail for the kids to open and play with (no addresses though!). Old birthday/christmas etc. cards are great for cutting and anything cut out from them can be used for sticking - could again ask staff and parents to bring them in. I'm a huge advocate for all things loose parts, so lots of junk modelling - parents and staff can bring in boxes etc. or I'm sure there are local shops/businesses (maybe even a children's centre?) that have lots of empty boxes, try contacting the PR of a supermarket if nothing else. Put out a news letter or something .. I can almost guarantee that one of the parents has access to something none of us can think of Edited May 20, 2015 by Rob6692 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Chrissie...the problem with an open forum is that we are all replying to someone we don't know in a written format which doesn't always translate well from the way we would speak to you (IYSWIM????) this forum is fab for offering advice in a non judgemental way (unlike mum's net etc!!) It's really important to ask questions and to listen to what you want to!! I'm sorry you've had a hard week .....we all know what that's like. As for resources we use loads of recycled stuff, our post office gives us ends of lines, the carpet shop gives us tubes, i collect shiny bits from packets, the local deli gives us boxes and empty sweet jars, the local offices give us paper, we buy bits from charity shops.etc etc etc!!!! also have you any scrapstores near you (try google) they can be brilliant and very cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_43045 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 LOl im fine guys honest i have read everyone s comments and take on board all that you have said. Have been in childcare since 1991 when the dreaded "O" was not around, then changed careers for 10yrs. Have been back in childcare for nearly 5 yrs and i guess i have got stuck in a rut ! (nice comfy one at that). Paperwork has NEVER been my thing and now having to do it :blink: . So art and craft and ideas was and is my thing which i love doing , but now that even seems not to be right ! . Hey ho will def look at other ways of doing things.( which we already do) and try to stay positive. Thanks to everyone . Love this forum and you guys its great to get support from others who are in the same profession as myself. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I trained initially in 1996 , pre Ofsted, and then things were more along the line you are used to .. over the years things did change but it took a long time and also a phase where I remember vividly work sheets and structure being required on inspections.. i remember being told by O that the children should be writing words and clearly writing their own names before they went to school.. these were 3yrs old, not yet 4 .. was so glad when play came back and those goals got shifted to end of reception.. The craft side was always the place I enjoyed.. for me it was empowering freedom of choice, leaning new skills, confidence in own abilities.. I did not always have everything out or available, as like you cost does come into it.. so it was a careful choosing of a variety of items .. we did find putting paint in the area a big hit, and if painting is not used look at how it is set up.. on an easel? Try a table top instead.. or even a sheet on the floor.. add cars ..always a hit.. As others I always asked parents first.. and was amazed at how much we managed to get that way..one parent supplied us with flour from her workplace , huge sacks of it, we just had to ask and they donated it to us.. Playdough sorted.. as was lots of other activities with it. Paper was often donated.. books, and one time we were given 50 wooden spoons.. Then came local pound shops, closing down sales, staff were enabled to buy up to a set amount if they saw a bargain while out. Amazing what was found.. a huge bag of pompoms for a pound.. we used them for ages in craft, counting.. etc.. all because she saw them when out and knew that we would refund the cost with a receipt. Plus we would buy in season, so would buy stuff we could use later.. particularly when they are selling off an event stuff.. Halloween we got lots of really cheap craft items to use as they were selling it off at 10p each.. I think everyone does the 'we are going to make xxx' at times.. for us the trick was to supply the items and the idea - stand back and help if someone was struggling or needed more support..it did not always look like the item intended to us, but to the child it did.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7227 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 We have a parent who spoke to a member of staff last week asking us to get her son to do more craft activities, as he's not bringing anything home. He loves doing arty stuff at home, so she can't understand why he doesn't at Preschool? I don't think it's crossed her mind that maybe he's had enough of the crafty stuff at home and at Preschool he's free to explore different toys, activities and resources! We ALWAYS ask if he wants to take part in whatever the activity is, and he usually says "no thank you", so I am in no way going to force a child to complete a craft activity just for the sake of something to take home. So yes, parents' attitudes DO have to change - they need to understand it's all about the process and not the end product, but it's a hard thing to convince some of them! I remember one particular child I worked in a setting with would not do any creative activities or play in the sand or water. His mum would ask why doesn't he bring anything home? On observing the child we realised it was because he was terrified he would get dirty and he said mummy told him not to get dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2268 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I personaly feel its a great time too have one too one with not only my key children but the other children too.This week I had planned to do spiders sticking brown wool to make hairy then encourage counting with the 8 legs . The children always do it themselves so I just chat about. The topic we are doing. I have always made sure that the children always do their own work and i only help if they ask for help. HI Chrissie Ive been in child care for 20 years and when I started the craft activity was the main point of the day - for staff, children and parents...I was always coming up with different 'loo roll crafts but over the years Ive realised how limiting it was and I cringe at what we did then - even moving pieces after children stuck them so they looked better The change has been gradual and was hard for everyone - when I first started trying to let children do their own thing we had parents asking all the time why and saying they don't do anything anymore but preschool is not 'art class' - just having something to take home is not the point. It took a looooong time to get children and parents out of the habit of asking / worrying about having nothing to take home...it has never fully gone away - many staff (and children) today still feel obligated and guilty when they are under pressure by parents who remember what it was like when they were at preschool and think its still like that. You are right when you say its a good time to spend with children one to one or in a small group - but you can still do that while they are doing their own thing...paint, draw alongside them, talk about their creations, about their materials....or even about something totally unrelated - you and the child will still get as much quality time out of it - but they will have been free to chose and create without worrying whether they are doing it right. The option to make spiders could be there - enhance the usual art provison with some picture prompts, some pipe cleaners, wool, string, clay / dough, pom poms as well as the usual paper, card, paint, glue (in all colours not just spider ones) ...the children might use these to make a model spider, a painting of a spider, a collage of one if that's what they're interested in..perhaps if they've been finding some in the garden ...but its highly likely that many will not...but whatever they do if there is an adult there I am certain you could still find opportunities to support the counting objective.... you can sing songs while you work...you can count / sort the pencils, scissors, pom poms ( or whatever) when you pack them away to check they are all there...etc ...its all good and much less pressure on everyone. I would never go back to the old ways I love the freedom this brings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4495 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I've always been one for letting the children do what they want after I was shown the Fluffy Duck story at a training event in my early days of nursery work. However, the settings I have worked in have very much subscribed to FD Syndrome as they want the nursery to look nice for the parents (!) The amount of times I have helped a parent out to their car with a child and their boot has been full of all this 'lovely' art work is so disheartening. Anyhoo, we've recently relaxed the way we approach our craft activities - we used to have a list of all the children and they were ticked off throughout the week as they were called away from whatever they were doing to make a caterpillar or stick a flower (yeah, I know!!) However, we now plan for an adult-led activity during the week that is usually craft/baking and topic related. HOWEVER, there is no list to tick - if children want to come over they can, if they want to do it three times that day they can. The area is set up with a whole lot of resources not just what we as staff would expect to use. They have access to sellotape, glue, staplers (with support) and can request additional items if they wish (we've tried having it all out but the 2 year olds trash it all!) We have provocations - pictures, books, photos and let the children decide what they want to do, rather than a member of staff making one up and then the children feeling as though they have to copy that example. We talk to the children about what they could use, how they could make it better, what they could add, is there anything else they need.....? The work is so much more independent and our Wow! Wall is full of unique work that the children are proud to share with their parents. It does take time to make that shift. It doesn't happen overnight and takes training with the staff and information sharing with the parents so they no longer expect a perfect snowman or Easter bunny. But they do embrace it and if you have a story to tell them about how their child came to the decision that their tortoise needed 10 legs it shows that you have spent time with their child and appreciated their creativity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_43045 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Thanks guys feeling a bit more positive today , maybe just need a break !!!!!!!!!!!!! It is very easy to get stuck in a rut !!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I like you all hate the "Fluffy duck" displays think i need to look through all our craft boxes too see what we have another member of staff did a free for all and they loved it . Pininterest it is for me this holiday and Imagination tree to get some good ideas. Hope you all have a restful break . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_534 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 A story I remember A little girl loved to do creative activities in pre-school. She was allowed to experiment and had so much creativity in her it showed in her pictures. She left pre-school and moved onto the school nursery. The nursery teacher was teaching an activity of making flowers on paper. The little girl started using her materials until the teacher shouted what are you doing I have not told you what to do yet. The little girl got upset and stopped what she was doing. The next term she got a new teacher and one day her teacher said we are going to make a picture of our house. The little girl sat there not touching anything until the teacher asked her "why she had not started yet". The little girl replied "you haven't told me what to do" This teacher was different and allowed children to use their imaginations but imagine what it could have been like. I don't even use colouring in pictures. If you run out of resources ask parents to donate some. If you send a list our to groups of parents at a time it may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Running out of resources can also been turned into a learning opportunity especially for your older ones. "Do you remember when we ran out of...last week? That's because we were throwing away a lot/using too much sellotape." Teach the children to put back things they haven't used (partly cut up pieces of card/pipe-cleaners etc. Talk about recycling. Obviously, you have to be careful not to go too overboard and make them less experimental because they are frightened of using too much!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_47736 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I have a similar story, one which is sadly true: A little boy starts nursery at the age of around 2, where he starts to mark-make and draw of his own free will. However, his nursery teacher regularly 'corrected' his work and told him exactly how to do things. After a while of this, the boy stopped drawing at nursery, home and anywhere else for fear of his work not being good enough. The boy's mother found out what had happened and removed him from the setting, doing everything she could to encourage him back into art - which meant a lot of junk modelling, as it was the only thing he would do. But alas, the little boy never picked up a pencil again. I still can't draw. I don't even enjoy it, I hate every moment of it. Edited May 21, 2015 by Rob6692 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I have a similar story, one which is sadly true: A little boy starts nursery at the age of around 2, where he starts to mark-make and draw of his own free will. However, his nursery teacher regularly 'corrected' his work and told him exactly how to do things. After a while of this, the boy stopped drawing at nursery, home and anywhere else for fear of his work not being good enough. The boy's mother found out what had happened and removed him from the setting, doing everything she could to encourage him back into art - which meant a lot of junk modelling, as it was the only thing he would do. But alas, the little boy never picked up a pencil again. I still can't draw. I don't even enjoy it, I hate every moment of it. However this will be what makes you a good teacher. So some good did come of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7227 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I have a similar story, one which is sadly true: A little boy starts nursery at the age of around 2, where he starts to mark-make and draw of his own free will. However, his nursery teacher regularly 'corrected' his work and told him exactly how to do things. After a while of this, the boy stopped drawing at nursery, home and anywhere else for fear of his work not being good enough. The boy's mother found out what had happened and removed him from the setting, doing everything she could to encourage him back into art - which meant a lot of junk modelling, as it was the only thing he would do. But alas, the little boy never picked up a pencil again. I still can't draw. I don't even enjoy it, I hate every moment of it. That's so sad but I agree with finleysmaid that will be something that makes you a good teacher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Reading these reminded me of something my 3yr old son brought home.. It was a cereal box covered in little squares, all even and in lines.. asking him to tell me about it.. he told me it was a box covered in bits of paper, he then went to a bin and threw it in.. Further investigation revealed the topic was Humpty Dumpty .. and they were told to make a wall for him to sit on.. with an example and all the bits there for them - he did spend ages doing it because he was told he had to do it.. but the process and result were not what he enjoyed or liked so hence he threw it away.. he said he did not want to bring it home but they said he had to.. It was this that made me go into early years .. I took over that setting a year later - things changed... (Was in social services day so no training needed to run a setting, but in our area they did spend a day in the setting to register it and check paperwork and the way it was run) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_47736 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Thanks guys, and I have no doubt that it has positively unfluenced me as an educator. I can't truly say I resent the nursery teacher, and there are plenty of other things I am good at - which perhaps would be less true if I had spent more time mark-making and less time doing other things - but it does highlight the importance of free play 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_64 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Chrissie, in terms of craft supplies I would definitely ask parents to help out. I always gave parents a letter with a list of items that would be welcome such as tissue paper, cellophane, coloured envelopes, wrapping paper, small cardboard boxes and tubes, clean lids from bottles (such as milk and fabric conditioner), buttons from old clothes etc. Some parents took this very seriously and we gathered some great craft materials once they learned to look at everything as a potential resource! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Just thinking about this thread and important issue! I wonder what we would say that the real purpose of a creative activity is? I think it may help us to be content with our decision about when and which activities to set up or which resources to provide? From creative activities I want children: 1. To know that there are lots of different ways of painting, drawing, collaging, modelling that produce different effects. Therefore, I might set up teabag painting one day, spray painting another day, sponge painting the next day, even scrunching up tissue paper etc so that children can learn this. All the children do not have to have had a go but it's there for them if they choose and it should be as open ended as possible and usually not for a display (although I have used free art as a backdrop before!) In the ideal world we would teach them to paint/draw/collage/model with resources that would always be available so that they can they make a CHOICE as to how to create a painting. But in the real world this may not be possible. However, if they have had the opportunity to have a go at different ways to paint or draw then they can at least ask if it isn't freely available. 2. To enjoy the process as much, if not more than the product! I'm sure people who paint or draw or create anything it is ultimately because they enjoy DOING it! I always comment when I sit in a friends garden that I never do this in my own garden because I'm forever getting up to pull up a weed or dead head a plant. Of course, this is so it looks the best it can be but I wouldn't keep getting up if I didn't enjoy the process! Nothing like a bit of mud underneath the nails! 3. To learn that it's OK to have different opinions and also to change your own opinion over time. What looks good to one person may not look good to another - including child and parent! 4. That creative work is NEVER wrong. What are your ideas? I'm sure yours will be better than mine!!! Green Hippo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 P.S. definition of 'creative' - relating to or involving the use of the imagination or original ideas to create something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 They safely use and explore a variety of materials, tools and techniques, experimenting with colour, design, texture, form and function. Children use what they have learnt about media and materials in original ways, thinking about uses and purposes. They represent their own ideas, thoughts and feelings through design and technology, art, role play and stories. so just as a reminder this is what we are aiming for in terms of the curriculum (music and dance removed) so 'craft' activities may meet some of these skills but the emphasis is on exploring and experimenting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I suppose I was looking at the inner depths of what creativity is as practitioners can interpret the curriculum in different ways! I don't think the words 'explore' or 'experiment' are taken into account properly with creativity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_47736 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I think creativity is the making of previously unseen links between different experiences, ideas and objects. Hence, any creative activity should be attempting to enhance and promote that. In real world terms, this means I should be offering a wide variety of open-ended resources and allowing for them to be moved, combined, altered and used in any way, shape or form (within reason). Since making links is the important part, it is the process that matters opposed to the product. It also means that nothing can ever be wrong (elephants can be pink) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Absolutely Rob6692. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 hi all, could someone explain the difference in adult led and focused activities and how many of each should be taking place daily? i have been put in a preschool where there is no routine or adult led/focused activities, just child intitiated play. As there was no structure to anything i've had to start from scratch and begin with the the children's current interests in minibeasts just so that there are some engaging activities (E.G bug hunts, butterfly prints) for them to do so we can make observations- these activities re not yet linked to any child's next steps. i plan for there to be a morning group time to do the register/sing/discuss todays activities and for a later group time to be a bit more focused e.g something from letters and sounds or something linked to the current interests. i dont know the children at all in terms of their abilties etc, im trying to update their next steps while planning the activities during the day- how do i do this?? oh and we are due ofsted yesterday. many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Hi Salus, Adult-led and focused activities are basically the same thing. There is no set amount that you should or shouldn't do. I'm in a school Nursery with only 3-4 year olds so we have a focused activity time everyday - where all the children do a focused activity in small groups at the same time (usually on a rotational basis). The focused activities are based on children's needs - I do a medium term plan which basically states the objectives that we need to work on as a cohort - and I very much base this on the children's next steps with some extras for curriculum coverage. We sometimes put the children into differentiated groups, but usually they do the activities in key groups and we differentiate within them. If I had younger children, then I don't think that this format would necessarily work. I very rarely have focused activities running during child-initiated play sessions and if we do, it will be aimed at a small number of children but open to all. I'm more likely to initiate something during child-initiated time and then let the children run with it as they please. Green Hippo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19920 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 another thing we get lots of is out of date flour and pasta -so well worth an ask to parents - i know i often contribute my pasta too !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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