Adult led activity's To do or not to do ?!

[Guest]

I have a similar story, one which is sadly true:

A little boy starts nursery at the age of around 2, where he starts to mark-make and draw of his own free will. However, his nursery teacher regularly 'corrected' his work and told him exactly how to do things. After a while of this, the boy stopped drawing at nursery, home and anywhere else for fear of his work not being good enough. The boy's mother found out what had happened and removed him from the setting, doing everything she could to encourage him back into art - which meant a lot of junk modelling, as it was the only thing he would do. But alas, the little boy never picked up a pencil again.

I still can't draw. I don't even enjoy it, I hate every moment of it.

That is sad and brought back some very familiar feelings of when a primary school teacher rubbed out my drawing because it was wrong. Even 40 years on I have the same feelings I can't draw in fact I don't even try because I know it won't be good enough.

[AnonyMouse_47736]

That's horrible, I'm sorry to hear that! I don't actually remember any of it, but my mum told me about it a few years ago and considering our professions I think we're educated enough on the subject to provide the reasoning and explain how it's impacted on me

I'm exactly the same, I despise having to draw (I'll draw if I'm sat with a child who's mark-making, but that's about it). I just don't get any joy from it and see no point doing it if I'm utterly useless. To be honest, I was probably never going to be Picasso, but I wish I enjoyed it at least. The practitioner didn't take away my abilities, she took away my joy

[Guest]

Exactly I do lots of things I am not very good at. I love singing, I know I am not good at it but I enjoy it and would not stop. I wouldn't want to do it in public mind although I am happy to sing to the children and love the nativity and sing in front of parents.

 

Isn't it food for thought how we as practitioners can have such power to make or break a child's confidence! Doesn't make our job any easier but definitely something for us all to think about.

[AnonyMouse_8282]

It's 'topics' for me..

 

I went to a progressive school in the 70s - and I can honestly say the only thing I learnt was that topics are usually mind numbingly boring! ...unless of course the subject matter is actually of interest in the first place - then they can be great.

[AnonyMouse_42713]

After a lot of debate and discussion our setting settled on having a free craft area where the child has access to a wide range of textures and materials to create whatever they want. BUT in addition to this we have an adult led craft to teach new skills or make something inspired by their interests. This is in another area of the setting and is unbelievably popular, many return to make things over and over and then recreate or adapt it in the free craft area. This has given us a good balance between making things to take home (that parents like to have) and free craft. We don't fluffy duck, if they want to make their elephant pink blue or fluffy that's their choice but this table we are looking at elephants today for example. You need to find what works for your setting. We tried just free craft and had so many parent comments and complaints that their children were not bringing things home or when they did it was just a few bits stuck on paper. This escalated when we didn't do anything like cards for mothers day one year. We had card available but did not make each child make one and this caused outrage. Seeing as parents as partners are a big part of eyfs you need to consider their views and so we now have adult led craft available but we don't make each child do it. I would say we encourage them over but we don't need to as it is easily the most popular area of the setting. Find a balance that works for you.

[AnonyMouse_19802]

Ya hoo Hoolahoney!! That's exactly how I think too! Trouble is we have kinda lost that adult led bit - except for high days and holidays! So looking forward to putting it BACK after half term! After all - if a very young child has had little experience of HOW to be creative - how do they build on it? Is it not also our job to inspire? Hoolahoney can you inspire me with a few of your ideas - to get me creating?!

For the life of me I cannot think WHAT I used to do with a toilet roll......... : )

[AnonyMouse_30128]

but we don't need to as it is easily the most popular area of the setting.

 

Now being devils advocate here...why do you think this is the most popular area?

[AnonyMouse_42713]

Finleysmaid - it is an area of our setting that children are ALWAYS present at, by their choice. Initially we said to the staff member on adultled to just do it for an hour see how it goes. That hour they were so swamped with keen children wanting to have a go that they extended it to the whole session and it is now busy from session start to finish. If an observer came in they could easily see that it is the popular area as children want to do the craft activity and others will stand waiting or just want to watch. It is frequented by a good 90% of the children and we don't have to call them over, they just want to make create and do whatever activity is on offer.

Rafa - glad someone else can see the benefits of inspiring and teaching new skills in a focused way. We do play inspire and develop learning throughout the free play in the setting as well but this is our one adult led area. Last term we went mainly by child interests and they were interested in superheroes princesses and flight so we used an ipad to look up making different styles of paper aeroplane and helped the children fold these and follow the instructions. We sewed capes out of material. We made superhero characters out of kitchen roll tubes. We drew superhero faces and put them on balloons to 'fly' through the air. We made Elsa frozen pictures with glue and salt. We made shields, crowns, Tiaras. We did a large scale picture of superheroes with handprints. We did a big art where the child could dress as a superhero and pose with backgrounds whilst their friend learnt how to use the camera and take a photo. We made gliders and helicopters. I could go on!

[AnonyMouse_30128]

The reason I ask the question is that I have found over my time that any activity where an adult is based becomes the most attractive thing on offer.....add to that a bit of paint and glitter and you have a winning combination.

 

I think from my point of view I would find it difficult to link one member of staff to this area every day, and I guess you could say that that would present an unbalanced curriculum for us. Also for us to get all of the children through (if they wanted to do it) it would require the process to be quite quick and maybe some of the learning intention might be lost.

 

Children express their creativity in many ways and as long as it is their creativity and not an adults then that's fine.

[AnonyMouse_73]

This has been such an interesting conversation, and always good to have a range of ideas and experiences. But I'll be in the controversial camp, for my sins. No, I don't like fluffy duck syndrome where adults give only the right amount of things needed in the right order and move the bits if they are placed in the apparently 'wrong' place. BUT, if you want to cook a meal, you might follow a recipe; if you want to build a table, you might follow a plan; if you want to knit a jumper you might follow a pattern. These are also skills. For me, I used to really enjoy cross stitch. But for years I followed designs created by others before I felt able and confident enough to create my own designs, learning what went well together and what didn't. Now, I garden! But I still take ideas from others eg via shows books and visits to gardens to inspire me to create my own.

Some children find it hard to look at a blank sheet and 'decide' what to do, especially if they have no experience of using the materials or any of the techniques. Some children, and I was definitely one of them, need to see and experience others doing something before they can use that knowledge and experience in their own way. Some children use the 'plan' as the platform from which their own confidence and creativity grows. So why not have a mixture of 'plans' to follow or copy and then adapt for themselves alongside a range of materials for free creations? Must it always be one or the other when there is room in the world for a bit of both?

[AnonyMouse_26037]

I like that Mundia. I often think of creativity as knowing the 'rules' and then making a choice about whether and how to break or follow them. Creativity comes out everywhere. You can be a fantastic architect or engineer and design the most beautiful house or bridge but if you don't get foundations or concrete mix or the process right then it will just fall apart.

 

So, maybe our role in helping to develop that streak of creativity I think is in all of us is to encourage acceptance and interest and a tendency to ask 'what if...?'. Also, to develop resilience and persistence. An idea can be amazing but may not work the first time we try it so we have another go and tweak our idea just a little and sometimes it can take more than a few tweaks!

 

I read Sophie's World years ago and one of my favourite lines was "wisest is she who knows she does not know ". We can ask those around us with more experience than ourselves to help us but our ability to ask can itself be limited by our own experience and having someone to show us the possibilities can open so many doors.

 

Someone on a course once made a passing comment about the way people approach doing a jigsaw puzzle. It opened my eyes - it had never even occurred to me that you could do it in different ways - I just followed the way my whole family does them. I wouldn't have asked if there were other ways to do it I needed someone to tell me it was possible.

 

I'm rambling a little I think - hope I make some sense!

[AnonyMouse_30128]

I like that Mundia. I often think of creativity as knowing the 'rules' and then making a choice about whether and how to break or follow them. Creativity comes out everywhere. You can be a fantastic architect or engineer and design the most beautiful house or bridge but if you don't get foundations or concrete mix or the process right then it will just fall apart.

 

 

but surely the creativity has to be there first doesn't it?

A great architect comes from a creative toddler who is nurtured in their abilities and then taught how to use those creative drawings, and the restrictions of your media in order to create the finished building.

I really think that the children we are teaching are at the beginning of this process...they need to discover the media, its properties and abilities, its feel and texture, what happens when it's mixed, left, squashed, squeezed etc etc etc. There is already so much to learn ...do we need to complicate it further by making something from it? and we should IMO never be doing it for the benefit of the parents...only for the benefit of the children!

p.s. I like a bit of rambling...some of my best ideas have come from a random stream of thought!!!

[AnonyMouse_4562]

I also like what Mundia has said. One of the things I have learnt through not only teaching but also other life experiences is that 'somewhere in the middle is often about right.' Therefore, with the craft types activities, I would never say never as sometimes it provides the opportunity to teach a skill and in the same way I would never say do it all the time. I believe that we do have to teach the children and, all the children, not just the ones that come to the creative resources provides. Of course, much of what the children learn and are taught can come through self-exploration with some sustain-shared thinking to scaffold the learning. I agree, Finleysmaid, that children need to have to have the time just to explore. So, they may well just cut up different material and in doing this are exploring the textures and how different materials cut and then, hopefully!, this knowledge will then be used when they are further along there journey and deciding which materials to use (e.g. making those links between previous experiences to inform choices). But, they also have to learn skills which may well need to be taught to some children through an adult-led activity with some choices. The dream catcher activity that I explained in a previous post had the learning intention of learning about joining techniques, However, although the children were offered the same range of resources, they all went about it in different ways - some spent their time exploring the hole-punch and and how the treasury tags worked and were not really interested in hanging anything from their star, others seemed to use it as a challenge as to how many charms that they could hang on their star. Some chose ribbon to hang theirs up, others fixed lots of ribbons on. None of the children were told that what they were doing was wrong while all practising the skill in question. Following this, the treasury tags and hole-punch were put in on the creative area shelf and the left-overs of the activity left for choice. Since this activity, the children have used the hole-punch and treasury tag (plus exploring other joining techniques) in their own creative work.

 

Green Hippo x

[AnonyMouse_47736]

Hoolahoney - it's difficult for me to have a true opinion without knowing exactly what your activities are and how they're done, but I don't think we agree. Teaching new skills is inarguably invaluable, but I fail to see how a regimented activity does that more effectively than a free-play one under appropriate adult supervision, offering help or joining the play as neccessary? I'm also at a loss as to what skill is being taught to a child making an elephant? You can set up activities to nurture or teach skills, such as using pegs for fine-motor movement, but it doesn't have to be a closed activity. I'm going to agree with Finleysmaid in that I think the activity is popular for the wrong reasons - children are drawn to activities where there is an adult. Further though, perhaps it's more popular because they get more praise from adults when they produce an adult-led craft (I mean parents, but also staff since the activity is manned all the time). Don't get me wrong, praise for achievements is of upmost importance, but why are the other creations not praised as much (by parents)? Craft activities and creative play is of no benefit to the parents, it is only the child that it matters to, so why tailor them to what the parents want? Educate them.

Rafe - We can inspire their play and theme activities without directing them or closing them. For elephants, leave pictures of elephants on the table, have a large pretend elephant in the centre of the table and set out resources like toilet tubes (legs) you know can be used to create an elephant (etc.). Provocations are fantastic at this! Children learn from their peers and adults, which is why they initially play alongside each other before playing together. Encouraging, helping and playing alongside them is by far the most efficacious means of introducing them to creativity. For the record though, I would argue that children are born creative, they just need to experiment with the resources.

mundia - I wholeheartedly contend your views, but I think I have mostly covered why already.

Some children find it hard to look at a blank sheet and 'decide' what to do, especially if they have no experience of using the materials or any of the techniques.

Then why are you not surrounding them with opportunities to explore these new materials and practice their new skills? Perhaps this is true if it is their very first day at the setting and they have lived a sheltered life, but otherwise I can't see how that is possible. There will be other child and adults playing alongside them, a wealth of resources to explore, provocations and inspirations and an encouraging Key Person (or other practitioner) if they really are standing there blankly - in which case, they are probably watching and learning, or if their involvement is that low maybe there is something else troubling them.

I too like a good ramble

[AnonyMouse_42713]

Rob 6692 - I beg to differ. Our activities are open ended, not closed, and vitally based around what the children are showing interest and experience in. We use the activities to extend their experiences further. For example whilst talking about Superheroes we looked at the different types of skills they have, how they help others and what they wear. The children had a wide range of craft resources and created their own superheroes, one with 15 eyes and lots of pipecleaner legs who was the child's interpretation of spiderman but they called him spideralien. Another measured a piece of blue fabric and stuck onto it lots of glitter before adding her own drawn face and body. This came from her knowledge of Elsa but it wasn't Elsa, it was Icicle a new supervillain who wanted the world to be frozen all the time so she could stop time whenever she wants. The child came up with a fantastic backstory and it sparked her imagination as to what they would wear, do, what may happen and tons of roleplay opportunities.

We have a free craft area at all times in addition to whatever craft materials are on the focus table. At the free craft table children can make create and do whatever they want with a massive range of supplies. No restrictions (other than safety) to their creativity or imaginations and quite often the focus craft is extended further in this area. Last week a group of boys worked really hard making a castle out of junk for their superheroes to live in. This was entirely their choice and they made the whole thing working out what they needed. The finished product looked nothing like a conventional castle if an adult were to observe or interfere, but who cares it was their amazing creative work all done by themselves.

Would they have built their 'castle' and role played for ages after if we hadn't had a focus activity on heroes? Maybe? Maybe not? but I can say doing that activity with them sparked something and they ran with it in their own directions of learning, which is my point entirely. Lend the spark and let them build the fire (figuratively of course, I don't need Health and Safety lectures!)

[AnonyMouse_7120]

This has been an interesting read, I'm with the 'think there's a place for both forms of creativity, free and slightly more adult directed', when I started this job there was no planning, observing, assessing, form filling for the sake of form filling etc and the ONLY thing I had to think about was what was going on the craft table that day and preparing 20 sets of everything, and if we were making elephants then yes the paint was grey, so things have come a long was since those days, but the thing that bothers me most reading these posts is that Froglet thinks there's more than one way to make a puzzle No ! No! No! You put all the pieces up the right way, find the corners and fill in the sides before starting on the middle

[AnonyMouse_30128]

but the thing that bothers me most reading these posts is that Froglet thinks there's more than one way to make a puzzle No ! No! No! You put all the pieces up the right way, find the corners and fill in the sides before starting on the middle

i'm sitting here wondering how many people will take this seriously! worryingly I suspect more than we think! :wacko: (can you tell ive been interviewing this week....beginning to despair!)

[AnonyMouse_26037]

This has been an interesting read, I'm with the 'think there's a place for both forms of creativity, free and slightly more adult directed', when I started this job there was no planning, observing, assessing, form filling for the sake of form filling etc and the ONLY thing I had to think about was what was going on the craft table that day and preparing 20 sets of everything, and if we were making elephants then yes the paint was grey, so things have come a long was since those days, but the thing that bothers me most reading these posts is that Froglet thinks there's more than one way to make a puzzle No ! No! No! You put all the pieces up the right way, find the corners and fill in the sides before starting on the middle

 

Not strictly accurate. It was a revelation to me that a jigsaw could be done in other ways - I think there is only one right way to do it!

[AnonyMouse_19802]

Hoolahoney I do like your thinking on this subject. Can I ask if you have 2yr olds - with regard to your 'no restrictions'? Only again - call me mean - but I find it hard to watch!!!! One this week- free choice - had great fun sticking - mountains of glue (great) but then upended a whole tray of collage materials onto her paper ( eeek!) and then painted over the lot!!!

Now, she loved the process - I loved her creativity - I gulped at the cost of that 2min activity.......... and then stationed myself as Creative Sargent Major!!

[AnonyMouse_19782]

This has been an interesting read, I'm with the 'think there's a place for both forms of creativity, free and slightly more adult directed', when I started this job there was no planning, observing, assessing, form filling for the sake of form filling etc and the ONLY thing I had to think about was what was going on the craft table that day and preparing 20 sets of everything, and if we were making elephants then yes the paint was grey, so things have come a long was since those days, but the thing that bothers me most reading these posts is that Froglet thinks there's more than one way to make a puzzle No ! No! No! You put all the pieces up the right way, find the corners and fill in the sides before starting on the middle

Yes I too have been about this long Mouseketeer - I prefer the way things are today I must admit.

 

Of course you don't do jigsaws that way I get the children to find the pieces of the main character first - the other stuff is boring! But does give the opportunity to mention straight sides and corners!

[AnonyMouse_19782]

Hoolahoney I do like your thinking on this subject. Can I ask if you have 2yr olds - with regard to your 'no restrictions'? Only again - call me mean - but I find it hard to watch!!!! One this week- free choice - had great fun sticking - mountains of glue (great) but then upended a whole tray of collage materials onto her paper ( eeek!) and then painted over the lot!!!

Now, she loved the process - I loved her creativity - I gulped at the cost of that 2min activity.......... and then stationed myself as Creative Sargent Major!!

My staff laugh at me when I mention costs about some of this type of activity - especially at Christmas with"good glitter" to be used sparingly and "naff glitter" which doesn't. However, I have had many a child like the one you describe and I just limit the amount of resources they can get too but not the range of resources, until their enthusiasm comes into line!!

[AnonyMouse_7120]

ha ha that's me to panders ...I hate to see resources wasted used frivolously ...whats more annoying are the members of staff that let it happen and are actually no better when it comes to wasting resources themselves...but then they don't do the ordering or have to manage the budget....but that's a whole other thread you don't want to get me started on..

 

as for puzzles I'm now going to be paranoid about whether we enforce our ideas of how a puzzle should be made on the children lol

[AnonyMouse_23964]

Yes Panders. Good glitter is single colours and naff glitter is multi coloured with bits of glue tissue etc that we sometimes manage to save from the children's creative process. Sorry, I manage to save!!!!! Have some staff that would put it in the bin -noooooooooo!

[Guest]

to digress completely from the thread (but I have been writing reports all day)

My other half says good glitter is at school and naff glitter is all over the carpet at home! He's a very patient man, but does begin to lose it around Christmas when I have glitter in my hair and he has been known to have to pick it out of his tea - poor dear!

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2015 by marywilliam

[AnonyMouse_7227]

YES! There definitely is a difference in the quality of glitter. Naff glitter you don't mind being used generously but there is always a heart stopping moment when the good glitter is about yo be poured out! I used to keep my class glitter locked away only to be used at specific times!

[AnonyMouse_19782]

to digress completely from the thread (but I have been writing reports all day)

My other half says good glitter is at school and naff glitter is all over the carpet at home! He's a very patient man, but does begin to lose it around Christmas when I have glitter in my hair and he has been known to have to pick it out of his tea - poor dear!

 

 

 

That did make me laugh marywilliam - just what happens to us

[Guest]

Just need to vent: I 'allowed' my team to do a 'fluffy duck' activity today (mainly because I'm having a bad day and didn't have it in me to argue). Some of them just don't get why I don't encourage more of it. One was then overheard saying, "I like this one. It's quick. I like them when they're quick." .... :rolleyes: <_< :blink: :wacko: :angry:

[AnonyMouse_30128]

, "I like this one. It's quick. I like them when they're quick." .... :rolleyes: <_< :blink: :wacko: :angry:

 

Quackers....completely quackers :o :rolleyes:

[AnonyMouse_19920]

I find when staff are filling the trays with resources for collage they always feel the need to fill each section to the very top!! I only fill each with enough to last a while - i would rather refill the sections when they are low /empty as i really hate it when all the resources have been mixed up so children cant really choose or see what is there. Is that me being a bit OCD?

[AnonyMouse_30128]

I had loads of stickers from an event at the weekend.....we used them to make crowns today (for magna carta!) I only had one child who went for coverage over design....well impressed!!