What Can I Say?

[AnonyMouse_3139]

The nursery I am working in at the moment is a long term placement, I've been there 4 weeks and have probably 8 weeks left to do. I am usually in the pre-school room with upto 16 3 and 4 yr olds, all lovely with one or two challenges. The problem I have is the staff, who are very friendly, have very little idea of FS. Last week I commented that I was so used to working in a playgroup that nursery life was a bit structured, to which the room leader replied 'It's what Ofsted want'. Today I was asked in front of the children if I thought J had been naughty, didnt I think he was disruptive? I had to be honest and say that I thought it might be the fact he and the children had all had to sit on the mat for the best part of an hour, (tidy up time is 11, then mats, lunch, mats, outside at 1, back in at around 1.30-1.45 and then mats, snack at 2, then free play, tidy up, mats at 3, thats when I leave so I dont know about after) the reply ' I cant do anything about that, this is pre-school'. So many things throughout the day make me bristle that I either need to speak to the manager and ask questions or speak to the staff I work mostly with or say nothing. I need advice, what would you expect your supply to do? Their ofsted was 2 yrs ago and was very good on all areas so it will look like I dont know what I'm on about, but I do, honest. Naughty children dont go out to play but go to the office, luckily this doesnt happen often but i've seen it twice, so I really find myself hiding small misdemeanors and sticking up for the children and I know thats wrong too. Help oh wise and wonderful ones

[AnonyMouse_1999]

Oh dear Rea what a situation

 

You certainly sound to me as though you do know what you are talking about

 

I have an aversion to the word 'naughty' and it is never used in my setting and as for staff having negative discussions about a child in front of them - well oh dearie me!

 

There seems to be an awful lot of 'mats' and sitting there for almost an hour sounds rather a long time to me - what exactly goes on 'on the mats' From your post I see that between 11-1 that it's snack, mats, lunch and mats and I agree it sounds rather structured

 

I would view a supply member of staff the same as any other, part of the team and views welcomed and shared but it seems as though yours are dismissed

 

Perhaps the fact that the staff are friendly is something in your favour and through 'chatting' you can get your concerns across in a way that results in them actually taking on board what you are saying?

 

I have to confess to not being keen on the sending to the office and wonder what sort of behaviour results in denial of going out to play. Is this part of their behaviour policy I wonder?

 

I fully empathise with you hiding small misdemeanours and sticking up for the children and faced with your situation I don't know that it is 'wrong' - you are doing your best for the children in very difficult circumstances.

 

I agree you need to speak to someone and if it were me my first port of call would be the staff I work with and if that doesn't have any positive results I would seriously consider asking questions of the manager.

 

To say nothing would, I think, be very frustrating for you and all those 'bristles' could mount to the point of you finding your position untenable which would be such a shame - early years settings need people like you

 

Very easy for me to say I know but go with your instinct, what you know and hopefully things may result in being better for the children and staff.

 

Sorry probably not alot of help but hang on in there and do let us know how it goes

[Guest]

They must have had someone different from OFSTED than us. We had concern raised because the children sat for 5 minutes maximum for recall [we're High/Scope] then went to the toilet, washed their hands and sat down again for snack [about 15 minutes]. And I felt the concern was justified. I think OFSTED's stance may have shifted with the new inspections, & this nursery could be in for a bit of a shock next time round. OFSTED are meant to be looking at what it's like to be a child in the setting, aren't they?

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Mats is usually a story or a chat about what they did that morning but i havent been able to find any regular planning so taking this into account I have been taking in some of my books or short activities (no one appears to mind me doing this) but I'm aware that these arent enough and arent always enough fun while they are having to sit on their bottoms, legs crossed. The mat time after lunch is more like a holding pen rather than anything else. I really dont want to offend the staff or tread on anyones toes, it's not that they are horrible, just misinformed and badly trained I think. There are loads of other examples of practice that could be improved, the children are told where to play, that it's not their turn and to go away, that they are making a mess, that they cannot move toys from the table, yesterday they werent allowed to go to the indoor physical play area because they had been too boistrous on the mat!!! And I was asked to tell the babies to tidy up, er, no. What I am doing there??? Actually you know, typing this out is helping me to see more clearly. Thanks for reading, being there and helping me to see that it's not just me.

[AnonyMouse_2732]

May be a bit late, here, but Rea - you know you're right, don't you!!!! (ha! that's got my own back for a comment of yours ages ago )

 

That not withstanding, you need to try to get your views across as otherwise they are really heading for a tumble when the big O finally arrive. I've never heard of anything so awful for those poor children - mats mats and more mats Where are their EYATs and Advisors??

 

Let us know how you go on, please

 

Sue

 

PS, nice talking again, btw

[AnonyMouse_1490]

Rea this is so sad for the children and for you and we all know that you are so right. If they don't mind you doing an activity could you do rhymnes and story telling with lots of interactive movement. I have to contain the children for 20 minutes whilst staff put away but they aren't sitting still just doing movements dance and keep fit but in a contained area. I am sure you already know this just trying to help make things better. I'm sure would enjoy this better too

[Guest]

Dear Rea

 

Typed up a whole load before but the server went down on me so here goes again.

 

I know exactly how you feel having worked in some nurseries with similar experiences.

 

I think you are, what's the saying between a rock and a hard place. As you have said you are only there for another 8 weeks - what happens then?

 

Change is always difficult - but as you say change is needed - you obviously havve had time to reflect on their practice and have come up with some ideas. However, how much you can do within 8 weeks is questionable and whether it would be carried out after that time is also questionable.

 

I suggest that you take the lead by acting as a role model, making small changes here and there as you are currently doing so that they can see first hand perhaps the changes in children's behaviour. This is what you are doing and there has been no grumblings. I expect they might be glad for someone to have some positive input. I cannot believe they get the children to sit for over an hour on a mat - I would love some of mine just to sit on the mat for 5 minutes - not because I think it is really worthwhile for them but sometimes it is for the benefit of the others who then become distracted during group time and who really enjoy sharing their experiences.

 

No planning - another common area - I think perhaps you ought to speak to the room leader and ask her if you could devise some sort of plan - something simple and explain to her that you need to do it for you own purposes so that you know as a support temporary staff you know what you should be achieving and ask them for their help in this to see what they come up with too.

 

You may find that she already has issues similar to yours but just doesn't necessarily have the experience to put it right. By acting as a role model they can experience first hand changes - just as you are doing by changing what they do at mat time by adding in things and making things more interesting for the little ones. I found that by taking the lead some of the other staff just felt really relieved and often when I came in again found them doing some of the things I had been doing - so create a little legacy - don't try to take on too much - you just have to accept that there are some nurseries that do not fulfil the needs of the child - if only Ofsted would pick up on these it would make a huge difference. But the sad fact is they don't always and I too have seen some really poor practice and it has not necessarily been as a direct result of the staff but from their training and management of the unit.

 

However, just remember that you only have 8 weeks and then it will presumably be handed over to another - it's really hard because presumably you will have to get up and leave for another position. You can only do what you can do - you need to get her on your side - but also accept that sometimes things are not all that they should but you cannot change everything in life - but maybe you can certainly make some small differences.

Nikki

[Guest]

My server went down too, just as i was replying, luckily i was able to copy and paste my reply into a word doc, so here it is..

 

I agree with all that's been said, in fact I was going to suggest that if you can't subtley change the routine it would be great for the children for you to be involved at these times because I am sure you would provide fun, interesting topics for 'mat' times.

What would happen if you were leading mat time and you got the children involved in an action song where they get the opportunity to stand up and sit down, etc and be more 'active'.

 

Does the preschool have an early years advisory teacher vist? It is their role to support settings in meeting the FSC appropriately. Could you contact him/her and voice your concerns?

 

Good luck, just pat yourself on the back for trying to maintain good relationships as well as looking at ways to improve the experiences for the children. Also be aware though that change of attitudes/knowledge can take ages, especially if it is not recognised that a change needs to take place.

Another option would be to talk to the manager about the 5 outcomes and/or the new document EYFS, ask her opinion, advice on how he/she interprets it. This way you are opening up a discussion about curriculum which is not aimed at what they are actually doing. I would ask her, during the conversation, how does she think it will change things with for example the paragraph that says 50% of the time should be child initiated ( 1.25 hrs of a 2.5 hr session, of this 50% should have adult interaction )

Good luck, and hopefully you can stick with it, for the childrens sake.

 

Peggy

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Thanks all. i did try doing activities that were more interactive but the assistant in the room kept bouncing on her chair, she was so anxious that they might stand for too long not do the right things or something equally strange

Anyway, an update on the day...I've been off sick with a cold today and the agency phoned to ask if I still felt it wasnt the place for me. I'd spoken to them the first week and said I needed to know how long I would have to be there, kind of like a light at the end of the tunnel thing. Well they are going to find a replacement so I can go back to my 2/3 days a week travelling around. I loved that and I've noticed where I am now that being long term creates problems for the children too. One girl is getting really attached to me and I dont think its fair on her when I know I'm going to leave soon anyway.

I love the idea of asking how they see the new initiatives, they have posters up all over the place about every child matters, BTTM and the rights of the child, policies are hung up, qualifications displayed, action plans in glossy folders. Shame the children cant read really

Well as I might not be there too much longer they wont have time to sack me or whatever it is you do to supply people. So I may just go in when I'm fit and well and do my thing regardless. Thanks for being part of the greatest forum in the world, where I can come to have my sanity refulled and given the once over.

[AnonyMouse_3139]

May be a bit late, here, but Rea - you know you're right, don't you!!!! (ha! that's got my own back for a comment of yours ages ago )

 

 

Sorry, dont remember the comment. It wasnt horrible was it? I didnt offend did I? No I wouldnt have. What was it? Oh now I'm worried.

[AnonyMouse_2732]

Oh, Rea!!

 

No, it was when I was feeling desperate and doubting myself!! You told me I was being silly and told me to get on with what I could do perfectly well - I think??

 

Sue

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Took that blasted bull by the horns last week. So many staff and children had been off sick that continuity was zero so I grasped my chance. We now do a story and then everyone stands up, shakes this foot, that foot, hands, arms, walk on the spot, then get faster, then sit. We have another story or some activity from my bag. I also spoke to the deputy about being happy to stay but I might need to loosen some people up, to which she gave her gracious approval. On Monday, it'll be a new Rea that flings open the doors.

Thanks for talking to me about it, It was really getting the hairs on the back of my neck up. I dont doubt that I wont change everything but if I can get them having a laugh it'll be something. Maybe I'll keep my marbles a bit longer.

[AnonyMouse_64]

Well done Rea! Maybe if the staff see what the children are like when they're having fun and that the whole lot doesn't come tumbling down they may just carry on after you've left.

[Guest]

Great news Rea, just shows that sticking to our principles does pay off, and as an added bonus you have found a positive outcome to this dreaded flu bug

 

Peggy

[AnonyMouse_2732]

Good for you!!

 

Sue