AnonyMouse_3307 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I was musing on the notion that people still think there are things they must do because that's what Ofsted want. Why do fads happen in education - where the mud kitchen or sensory space become this years "must have" without which all children will be unable to develop or learn? I then found myself wondering after so many years in education (33 in September) how it is that we are so often resold things that were once good old fashioned evidence based practice but we have forgotten about. Why do we need the packaging and "I must do it like this" to feel confident about our practice? How is it that we are often so keen to leap on the nearest current "thing" without really reflecting on what we are being sold? Recently we have planning on the go, or what I really do think of as just effective teaching - where the adult has depth of knowledge and can teach outside of a lesson plan or activity sheet. Dancing about with dough became the thing to solve all PD issues with writing - again some quality first teaching that focused on the physical development curriculum would achieve the same without the need for synchronised time wasting with dried up playdough everyday. "Talk for writing" is another thing which became a panacaea for literacy, not to mention the Big Write with all its candles and soft hush while the same children still failed to write confidently...I could go on. They have all been or are the current thing, the must have practice. What do we feel if we are the setting NOT making children dance with dollops of dough in their fists or haven't chucked out our planning systems like the setting down the road? Insecure? Not doing what is wanted or necessary to ensure we get results? Interested to see what everyone thinks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_11396 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 This is a very interesting question Catma. I too have been in childcare for 39 years this year and seen many trends come and go, some quite ghastly in my humble opinion. For me it's more about having a thorough understanding of child development. Observing what captures childrens curiosity to enable strong teaching and progress large or small. If the children leave us at aged 4 with a strong sense of self, feel listened to and have a voice, then we have achieved our aims. The picture of dried up synchronised playdough did make me chuckle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Good morning my name is sunnyday and I have never danced with dough! Oh I feel so much better for getting that off my chest :lol: My all time favourite training was the 'well being and involvement' that is based on the work of Laevers - I have carried through in my practise ever since 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_30128 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 i suspect it stems from a feeling that no one in education is getting it right...constant moans from the government,other agencies.parents and even children!!! wear you down after a while and instead of having the self esteem and confidence (which we instill in our children) we start to take on board all those things that 'everyone' else is doing. Its a bit like my children who used to come home demanding the latest gadget and saying ive got to have it cos everyone else has got it......if we employ this 'type' of person then they have no ability to think outside the box and learn to stand out from the crowd...they are sheep following the latest trend because they know they need to do something but dont know how to fix it.(my children did not get the latest branded thing and are certainly not sheep!) Education people seem to like to catch people out and make them feel inferior...oh you don't do it that way do you...that will never work ive tried that...it was useless ..try this instead or have you seen the latest blog about??? then they add the OFSTED label and they've sold the idea! this then gets passed to the next setting in a series of Chinese whispers..making it appear necessary. being able to find your own way of doing things and sticking to it is hard work and you need to really know why you are doing it, When I set up the new nursery my LEA gave me lots of advice and I was told I needed to do XY and Z ..I had the knowledge to stick to my guns and I was rewarded when we were inspected with a very sensible inspector recognised what we had done and why. sorry bit of a ramble there...haven't even had coffee yet so will read this later and think what the heck was I saying :unsure: :wacko: :blink: :lol: 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Don't let me loose on the comments.......................it just might get steamy in here! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19762 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Don't let me loose on the comments.......................it just might get steamy in here! Oh go on narnia - I like a sauna 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_14268 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Over my many years I have had many visits from the LA quality improvement officers, learning and development advisors and whatever they are currently called. I think they have a big part to play in it. They visit many settings and see something working well and say to the next setting to do it and of course it may not work for them, but they feel under pressure to try as the other setting was doing it. It's really interesting when you think back to all the different planning, play and teaching approaches that we have all tried over the years. I have been guilty of trying everything in the past and jumping on bandwagons (I too have never danced with dough) only when I tried to handle it straight out the pan and burnt myself! But I think that this is just because we have a strong desire to improve our practice and strive to be the best we can. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8282 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Well I for one am quite happy that the 'In the moment planning' is fashionable at the moment. Simply because, I can now confess- I have only ever really done that kind of planning in the whole of my many many years of childcare! When advisors have 'advised' I have nodded agreed, accepted various templates etc.........and continued to do my own thing. I may have just been very lucky (touch wood) but Ofsted have never actually really looked at our planning until our last inspection Jan 16- and she seemed more than happy with our system. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_14268 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Have to add I have nothing against these people, they do a good job and have some good advice. I did not mean my previous post to sound negative against them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_19802 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 My name is Rafa and I confess - I HAVE danced with doh!! I blame Alistair Bryce-Clegg - he told me to too, it was him, he said it.....I did it!!! Baaaaaaaa....... : ) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_22029 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 My name is LK and I have tried to dance with doh but felt really silly when the children walked away from me. The "thing" that has stuck with me through my 30 years in childcare is how much my words and actions are reflected onto the children. If I can keep smiling and remain calm most children will respond with warmth. I can then inspire them with my knowledge and they will listen. As for planning I have always found this one hard because it isn't until I am with the child that I know what I am going to do. Making plans as long as a week in advance doesn't work for me but I do it and then deviate almost without fail because there is something more exciting to see or do. I do enjoy trying out the "NEW" fad,ideas cos sometimes it gives me an idea for something else. I have liked the thoughts about how children learn and importance of promoting emotional well being and the fact that this has been made more accessible to the likes of myself. Think I may have digressed a bit from the original thought behind the thread about what we want. But my answer is to be understood that I have the child in my sight and I will do everything I can to help that child to grow and develop using my knowledge, skills and the resources that I have at hand. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Some great thoughts here! I think I always want the practitioners I work with to be able to talk confidently about WHY they do things rather than what they do. For me it's the essence of good practice that a practitioner will use whatever strategies they feel are most appropriate for the children they are currently working with. This might change year on year with different groups as well. The thing with every new "thing" is that we possibly never ever look beyond the thing and ask what is the evidence for this? What do we actually get that is different from the things we are already achieving for our children? Whilst I would also say that if we always do what we've always done we'll always get what we always got, I would want people to challenge and ask questions about practice that they adopt. The paper by Dr Ben Goldacre back in 2013 on Building Evidence into Education was a very persuasive argument for professionals to challenge and be able to use research to inform their choices. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/building-evidence-into-education We want to encourage critical thinking in our 1,2,3,4 and 5 year olds but sometimes I wonder if we use the same qualities ourselves! Cx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_26037 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I think I always want the practitioners I work with to be able to talk confidently about WHY they do things rather than what they do. We want to encourage critical thinking in our 1,2,3,4 and 5 year olds but sometimes I wonder if we use the same qualities ourselves! Cx I completely agree! I find sometimes that I ask why we are doing something and the answer I get is essentially "Because it's a lovely thing to do." While I often agree with the 'loveliness' I don't agree that that means it should take up precious curriculum time. I also sometimes get the impression that people think that 'following the national curriculum' means boring. While I would agree that some of the content wouldn't make my list of top ten most exciting things to learn about that doesn't mean it has to be delivered in a boring way. I increasingly find myself frustrated by hearing people complain that there isn't enough time to do things but when you look closely at what they are spending their time on you often discover that they are spending time on things which are nice but not necessary. That doesn't mean I think we could all lazing around doing nothing! The why question is sparking some interesting conversations with my student - along the lines of... S: That was a nightmare lesson Me: Why? S: Because X and Y got together and started messing about and wouldn't stop and then the others joined in and no one would do what they were told and and and... Me: Why? S: ??? Me: So what can you do that will change that? I also wonder about how to maintain the sustainability and effectiveness of trying out new and different approaches. I have moved to a school where they introduced Talk for writing and whatever the thing that uses VCOP is ages ago probably for really good reasons. I have never used either and consequently my class are getting it in very much a trial and error way based on snippets of information passed on. It is hugely diluted and I would question its effectiveness however, based on the conversations I've had and the reading I've done to try and improve my own knowledge of these I get the impression that most other people in school are also doing a very diluted version and have lost sight of why they were doing it in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 I also wonder about how to maintain the sustainability and effectiveness of trying out new and different approaches. I have moved to a school where they introduced Talk for writing and whatever the thing that uses VCOP is ages ago probably for really good reasons. I have never used either and consequently my class are getting it in very much a trial and error way based on snippets of information passed on. It is hugely diluted and I would question its effectiveness however, based on the conversations I've had and the reading I've done to try and improve my own knowledge of these I get the impression that most other people in school are also doing a very diluted version and have lost sight of why they were doing it in the first place. That's a very good point and one I had forgotten! Unless we continuously update new staff with CPD about any approach then we do end up with chinese whispers and misunderstood practice. cx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_4562 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Hi! I, as both Catma and Finleysmaid know, have been the person described in Catma's original post. I USED TO ask endless questions about how different settings worked, beat myself up if I went to a setting or a course and I didn't have a certain thing in place - provision/practice/planning etc and never thought I was getting it right. For me I think it was a combination of lack of knowledge and support from colleagues including the senior managements teams and also the ever-changing theories of the 'right-way'. However, this lack of confidence has actually allowed me to gain a lot of knowledge, understanding and (further) passion for what I do. I have read endless articles, books, internet sites etc so I actually feel now like I can make an educated decision about the way our setting works (and any trainee that we have in gets the full justification as to why we do or don't do thing a certain way.) I used to be OBSESSED with this site but as my confidence has grown, I find myself visiting less and when I do visit it's to keep myself up-to-date, to hear about other's experiences, to join in discussion and occasionally to find other's opinions of thoughts I've had about changes we might make in our setting. I have tried lots of different things and will continue to try anything that I feel has a research-based justification to try. I will evaluate it's effectiveness with my staff and carry-on in the way I feel best. I always think with new initiatives, especially those that come from a business, is that their books and theories are written in a way to completely sell the idea to you e.g. you must do it this way with all these expensive resources and training days in order for it to work. However, in actual fact all initiatives have to be tailored to the school and the cohorts and continually evaluated as to their success. I have CONSIDERED dough-disco but as ONE of the methods which may get my children who need to develop their gross motor movements and stability further, practice certain movements - I haven't used it yet and wouldn't use it for all the children just because someone else says I should. What is important is to continue to move forward and make changes where necessary (a 'This is the way we do it here' approach is just as ineffective as changing methods depending on the latest Chinese whisper) and to continually evaluate what you're doing which is why many of us use this site! Sorry, I've gone on a bit but this topic has really struck a chord as it reminds me just how unconfident and anxious I have been in the past and how much I've had to 'teach' myself in order to be where I am today. Green Hippo x Edited March 20, 2017 by green hippo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1490 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I have been in childcare for 38 years.I do try different ideas if I think they will suit the children that I have at the time.I listen to early years advisors but usually question how they know their idea would benefit my children.I am not scared to try new ideas if i think they will benefit the children not because Ofsted might like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I am not scared to try new ideas if i think they will benefit the children not because Ofsted might like them. The current Ofsted Mythbusting campaign is all about this kind of thing - Ofsted have no preferred practice - they are concerned only with the impact on the children of what you are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1490 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Thats good , Ofsted have come round to my way of thinking. Years ago I was worried about what Ofsted would think or say. I now have the confidence to argue my point to parents, eh advisors and Ofsted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 What is important is to continue to move forward and make changes where necessary (a 'This is the way we do it here' approach is just as ineffective as changing methods depending on the latest Chinese whisper) and to continually evaluate what you're doing which is why many of us use this site! Green Hippo x Lol!! Disclaimers #1 - I had noone in mind when I was writing my original musings, honest and #2 I have no view on any particular method of teaching - like Ofsted i just want to know how effectively children are being taught and developed! I completely agree. Cx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_26037 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 The current Ofsted Mythbusting campaign is all about this kind of thing - Ofsted have no preferred practice - they are concerned only with the impact on the children of what you are doing. And this was evident in a mythbusting letter they sent to schools a couple of years ago. The difficulty comes when not everyone reads something in the first place. One of the things at the time was that Ofsted wouldn't be grading individual lessons - it wasn't possible on a snapshot observation of 20 minutes teaching. There was also a lot of stuff in there about not wanting to see particular lesson styles/use of ICT etc. My then head immediately stopped doing it - he didn't like it and didn't feel it benefitted us or the children but I know of many other heads who still do grade individual lessons and use check lists when doing a lesson observation and comment on personal style. The other thing I've found over the years is that it's not just Ofsted who create some of the pressures and expectations. When I was teaching reception the LA I was in was brilliant when it came to early years, offered some good training but more significantly from my point of view - if you got moderated for your EYFSP judgements it truly felt like a conversation about my knowledge of the children and nothing else. However, I had friends who taught in the neighbouring authority who were expected (and told so by the moderators - it wasn't just a myth) to be producing 3 individual bits of post-it evidence to support every single ELG judgement. I don't know how a lonely reception teacher in a one-form entry school with a headteacher who knows nothing about EY and hands the reins over completely is supposed to battle that kind of thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3307 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 However, I had friends who taught in the neighbouring authority who were expected (and told so by the moderators - it wasn't just a myth) to be producing 3 individual bits of post-it evidence to support every single ELG judgement. Grrrrrrrrr!! This is where I would be waving the handbook, ARA and everything else at them!!! If this was ever said in my LA I'd be furious! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_13453 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I've heard this in North Yorkshire too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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