Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I have a WHOLE load of questions about writing! * How often do you do writing as one of your focused activities? * Would you aim that, when you 'do' writing, ALL of your children would write? * What do you write? * How much help do you give the children? * What outcomes do you expect? * What can your lower/middle/high ability children currently do? * How long does your writing take? * Do your children feel confident to write as part of their independent play? If so, how many? (a rough percentage will do!) I'll probably think of some more questions but this will do for starters!
AnonyMouse_2157 Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 OK Quizmaster here goes... hope its what you need let us know what you do as its always good to share practice * How often do you do writing as one of your focused activities? Once a week (Thursday morning) as a guided focused activity * Would you aim that, when you 'do' writing, ALL of your children would write? YES * What do you write? Usually related to topic or big book * How much help do you give the children? depends on ability tops mostly indepedndent/ middle more guided support and encouragement/ lower sometimes 1-1 sometimes let them purely emergent write * What outcomes do you expect? Again depending on ability. Top expectations of sentence structure (2-3 sentences) with beginnings of full stops and maybe capital letters when reminded. Middle write at least a sentence using keywords to support structure and tacking more complex words using phonic awareness Lower group to have a go/ trying to identify correct initial sound in words * What can your lower/middle/high ability children currently do? see above * How long does your writing take? all morning to get through 5 groups of 6 (I do 3 my TA does 2 or vice versa depending on who is finished first) Other literacy based activities out to support and consolidate previous learning. Puppets/stroytelling/roleplay/ICT/sand water usual mix of learning areas * Do your children feel confident to write as part of their independent play? If so, how many? (a rough percentage will do!) always seeking ways to encourage indepedndent writing. They do love to use the writing area especially the sellotape/scissors etc. Of course there are certain children who use it more than others but we try as much as possible to encourage the more reluctant ones whenever we can couldnt tell you a percentage though as its very mixed a lot of the time. depends what has been a focused and how we have introduced something new etc
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Hello! * How often do you do writing as one of your focused activities? 3 a week, maybe even 4 actually. * Would you aim that, when you 'do' writing, ALL of your children would write? Definitely, but differentiated. * What do you write? Mind maps/response to text/retelling or planning stories/topic related/non-fiction/character profiles/poems etc * How much help do you give the children? Top - often encouraged to be independent now but do work with them on improving their targets e.g; sentence structure/punctuation. Middle - help to talk through what they want to write - more 'guided' with prompts etc but encourage independent sounding out/word building. Lower - Depends on the activity. Usually focus on hearing and writing initial sounds/cvc words etc, and always guided although as much independence as possible encouraged. * What outcomes do you expect? Higher - 2/3 sentences at least really. Middle - 1 sentence. Lower - key words interms of words related to the writing e.g - if it was about frogs to have a go at writing something like 'green frog' * What can your lower/middle/high ability children currently do? * How long does your writing take? 40 minutes to get through 4 groups - TA with 2, myself with 2. * Do your children feel confident to write as part of their independent play? If so, how many? (a rough percentage will do!) They do and now more and more choose writing as an independent activity either in their independt books, whiteboards, writing cards for each other etc. Within play I find I constantly need to change the ideas for writing to keep them fresh and interesting which can be difficult at times. This week we have guessing what's in the egg and posting suggestions, writing cards for eith flowers in the florist and old maps in construction. Hope this helps - will be interesting to see what other's do. Emma
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I have a WHOLE load of questions about writing! * How often do you do writing as one of your focused activities? We have 2 mornings a week for CLL so usually one is a writing focus and tohre is reading * Would you aim that, when you 'do' writing, ALL of your children would write?Yes - I have half and nursery officer has half so they get time to sound out/dev skills. * What do you write?linked to big book - as many diff forms/types of writing as poss. * How much help do you give the children? As much support as they need, encouraging as much indep as poss and every couple of weeks we do completely indep pieces to see where they are at (even if still doing emergent) * What outcomes do you expect?this depends on stepping stones being covered. * What can your lower/middle/high ability children currently do?lower-Need constant reminding to say word themselves to hear sounds, can hear initial and some finals but need support recording letters as not finished learning phonics yet-they can record some of letters learnt so far from memory. Middles - Still need reminding to say words aloud to hear sounds, can hear initials and most finals and can find letters using lettercard with limited support.More ables-identify middle sounds as well and are using sight vocab words in their writing-very independent. * How long does your writing take?Generally will get through 12 chdn in a morning but it depends on the activity really. Same ability pairs are good to give chdn more teaching time. * Do your children feel confident to write as part of their independent play? If so, how many? (a rough percentage will do!) 100% - we have a learning award focus everyday and have really been pushing some form of indep play writing at least twice a week to recieve a reward-this is differentiated eg ice cream shop MA-write 3 flavours they like,LA write 1. Prob teaching you to suck eggs -but having quick recap of phonics with flashcards, then reading big book (brain gym break so they dont go nuts!!)and then shared writing something about it will then set chdn off to do indep/focussed activity writing in a morning. I'll probably think of some more questions but this will do for starters! 51494[/snapback] This is what we do.......... * How often do you do writing as one of your focused activities? We have 2 mornings a week for CLL so usually one is a writing focus and other is reading * Would you aim that, when you 'do' writing, ALL of your children would write?Yes - I have half and nursery officer has half so they get time to sound out/dev skills with support. * What do you write?linked to big book or cross curricular area - as many diff forms/types of writing as poss. * How much help do you give the children? As much support as they need, encouraging as much indep as poss and every couple of weeks we do completely indep pieces to see where they are at (even if still doing emergent) * What outcomes do you expect?this depends on stepping stones being covered. * What can your lower/middle/high ability children currently do?lower-Need constant reminding to say word themselves to hear sounds, can hear initial and some finals but need support recording letters as not finished learning phonics yet-they can record some of letters learnt so far from memory. Middles - Still need reminding to say words aloud to hear sounds, can hear initials and most finals and can find letters using lettercard with limited support.More ables-identify middle sounds as well and are using sight vocab words in their writing-very independent. * How long does your writing take?Generally will get through 12 chdn in a morning but it depends on the activity really. Same ability pairs are good to give chdn more teaching time. * Do your children feel confident to write as part of their independent play? If so, how many? (a rough percentage will do!) 100% - we have a learning award focus everyday and have really been pushing some form of indep play writing at least twice a week to recieve a reward-this is differentiated eg ice cream shop MA-write 3 flavours they like,LA write 1. Prob teaching you to suck eggs -but having quick recap of phonics with flashcards, then reading big book (brain gym break so they dont go nuts!!)and then shared writing something about it will then set chdn off to do indep/focussed activity writing in a morning. Hope this helps Jacqui
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Thanks apple! I find writing a long, hard slog! I had been doing the same type of thing as you but find it really hard going. I would say that my children come in with low standards of literacy, particularly writing, although it's a fairly 'middle class' area. That's not meant to sound snobby by the way. The biggest problem I have is that children are scared to write when they come in - 'I don't know how to write' is a common wail. I put it down to children's previous writing experiences being tracing over/copying what someone else has written which to my mind sends children a message that only grown-ups can do writing. Anyway, I digress. As our mini-theme this week is vegetables we set up a greengrocer's and had stuff for writing signs, shopping lists, price tags etc. Following excellent advice I was given by ASPK, during a whole class session I had sent out my more able writers with my TA and they had written lists of ingredients we would need for the vegetable soup we are going to make tomorrow. I've already alluded to this is in a previous posting, but I find that writing in a role-play scenario works much better in terms of motivation and getting SOME of the less willing writers to 'have a go'. The problem is that I'm left scrabbling around for bits of paper to act as 'proof', not everyone wants to be involved (they didn't want to be involved when I did it more formally, either, but then I used to make them!) and I am loathe to dwell too heavily on things like letter formation, and 'what sound can you hear next?' type questions in case it turns them off. My more able writers are really off and flying, my middlies are coming on slowly (and often reluctantly) and then I have a great long slide into oblivion! Sorry, that's very negative but it's late and I'm dog tired... I don't have my class set-up to be a literacy morning, instead having something out for all of the 6 areas everyday. I have toyed with the idea of having a morning, every other week, where everything out would be heavily skewed towards writing and letter sounds etc but feel that whilst this would be okay for some, there are some of them for whom this would be a totally wasted morning and that the behaviour, which is a REAL problem this year, would completely slide due to lack of interest/motivation/ability. What I really need is 'The Magic Book of Perfect Teaching'. If anyone knows where I can get a copy... Edited March 22, 2006 by Guest
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Sorry everyone else, I started typing ages ago and then got side-tracked by some rubbish on TV. I haven't read your replies yet (I'm just going to do it) but I didn't want you to think that I'd ignored you!
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Thanks for all the replies. I can get mine to do what some of you are doing in terms of output BUT it's not enjoyable for me or the children. I find that I have to gnash my teeth a lot (!) and say, 'Come on. What are you going to write now?' or 'What's the next sound you can hear, and the next sound, and the next sound...'. Feeling like a failure now, huge sigh... Out of my class of 29, 9 are really off and can write stuff independently that you can read and of those 9, 3 are stunning. I have another 9 in the middle who can write CVC words and have a good go at writing phonetically plausible attempts at longer words and then I have my last 11 - some of whom can write initial sounds but many of whom just write scrawl, letter like symbols or letters from their name. Out of all of them, many are still not forming their letters properly. Having read back through that I feel even worse now. I am reluctant to do writing every morning as some of mine are still only part-time and then I worry that they wouldn't get the breadth of experience/knowledge of the other 5 areas. I think a lot of it boils down to a previous query I posted about the independent activities I plan being more interesting than the teacher led things so all the children want to do is escape! I'd really be interested in what other people do if for no other reason so that I can beat myself up some more
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Moose you have brought up an interesting issue-why do children say they don't know how to write? I don't think its all as simple as blaming -tracing-underwriting e.t.c making them lack confidence. I have pondered long and hard over thisI have taught writing the'old fashioned way!!!' and emergently, For assessment you do need their own writing-true, but when children wail I don't know how to write- I think we should listen to the child. Its damn hard work making a pencil go to make shapes and Through the literacy strategy we are asking them to try to learn to do this and think about what's next-what soundsto use- If I was learning a new language like this I'd fail! I think children are more sophisticated than we give them credit for and for some, role play writing isn't for them' they want to do the real thing and for young children it means simply I do not know how to make the letter shapes. I cannot remember the less able having as many problems way back when I began to teach as children seem to have now. The lchildren traced over and under until their handwriting skills were as a habit, and they absorbed ideas through their reading. My seven year olds wrote more, more independently and enjoyed it and I did not find teaching writing a slog. The emerging programmes about different education systems that say' too much too soon are right.' The more mature children will write emergently or fly whatever but I think many are put off, I know my son was and hated writing all the way through school- A june birthday!!!! We've just had a back to basics with reading-perhaps they should look at writing again! Hope this will start a debate, and look forward to hearing what people think!
Guest Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Just a thought, Moose, do you let your children write on white boards and/or your own white board? Some of mine just love to do this. All you need do then is either photocopy the small boards or photograph the big one. I let them use the big dry wipe markers that we use as teachers. They come in all colours. It might be more motivational for those reluctant writers? You could also try those magnetic "etch a sketch" type boards.
Guest Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Moose, I have about 5 children who are really struggling with their writing. I bought some trace and erase pockets from one of the catelogues and this group love them. We start by thinking of a simple sentence 'I can run/hop etc, I write it on card, cut the card up, they order it and put in the pocket.Then useing WB pen trace over the sentence and then photocopy it. This has really increased their self confidence in writing because they can see the result at the end.
Guest Posted March 25, 2006 Posted March 25, 2006 Hoky-doky this is going to be a long reply but bear with me!! * How often do you do writing as one of your focused activities? Probably four days. Which I personally think is way too much. Its not always at the writing table either, it could be labelling a still life drawing from the k&u table or writing a mother's day card etc. * Would you aim that, when you 'do' writing, ALL of your children would write? Yes but we never get through them all! Obviously differentiated btw. * What do you write? Allsorts. Lots of name practice, although I hardly call tracing 'practice'. I'm a lover of encouraging/promoting/praising emergent writing and feel that we don't give the children at our nursery enough opportunity to do this. * How much help do you give the children? If they are being lazy, not much. If they are struggling, then however much they need; I'll often finish off when they are starting to flagg. If they simply can't write then I write and see if they can have a go at copying underneath, on top or I'll ask them to do some pretend writing for me. * What outcomes do you expect? Personally, I just want them to try their best and be supported in that! Wonder what the big-wigs would say to that! * What can your lower/middle/high ability children currently do? High - 10 out of 13 can write their name and for example mummy daddy (names of) brothers & sisters. Also some cvc words. They can sound out more words than they can write. We use THRASS which has encouraged much more sounding. Middle - About 9 out of 13 can write their name. Some can do some of the above. Lower - erm. These are mine bless them! I have two who can write their first names and one who can write both names. The rest scribble, practice and do fantastic 'pretend' writing which they get oodles of praise for! * How long does your writing take? As long as it needs to but usually all session. * Do your children feel confident to write as part of their independent play? If so, how many? (a rough percentage will do!) I'd say about 20% do which is quite low. I don't think they are given enough opportunity for emergent and practice writing though - something I'm working on with the nursery teachers! Someone mentioned etch boards. We have just bought these magnetic gel boards and they are FANTASTIC!!! http://www.tts-group.co.uk/Product.aspx?ci...ref=TTSPR593221 Hope this helps! x
Guest Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) Thank you everyone for being kind enough to share what you do. I'm still interested in collecting as many ideas as possible. I am especially interested in the views about emergent writing. One of the points they make in the 'Playing with Sounds' folder is about 'play writing' being an important stage in children's development and I believe in this but I'll be blowed if I can get a lot of mine to do this. I do believe that this is partly because children have too much 'stuff' nowadays: everything is plastic, comes ready assembled and you don't really have to imagine/invent anything. I wonder if this creates a mind-set whereby everything has to be perfect? I was talking to our Y2 teacher the other day and she said that sometimes she has suggested her children taking home a picture or something to finish and she actually gets children say THAT THEY HAVEN'T GOT ANY CRAYONS/FELT TIPS . I could understand this if we worked in a deprived area but we don't. Also, if children do have pens/pencils etc they use them for colouring. Mindful of somebody else's posting about colouring sheets I need to clarify that I DO use colouring sheets sometimes as an independent activity (and would argue to the death that I think they have educational value) but also think that children need opportunities for blank sheets of paper where they 'do their own thing' (again, this is what others said, too). I bet that a lot of my children have colouring books but not blank paper. I can remember, when I was young (a long, long time ago) sitting and writing for pleasure and my own children would sit and 'write' - it was scribble but as far as they were concerned it was meaningful. With a lot of mine, if I suggest writing something, they look at me as if I'm mad and it is this that I find hard to deal with - the complete reluctance to have a go. I know that if I wrote something and got them to write over the top/copy underneath then they would do it but in my mind I can't see the point of this. That's not meant to be antagonistic although reading back I realise that it could be construed that way - sorry! Also, what do you think about my earlier point that if you give over lots of time to writing then the other areas don't get so much attention. Is this valid or am I making excuses for my rubbish teaching? I have loads of half-formed thoughts flying about my head now - 6 points on the FSP being a 'good' level of attainment, the writing targets being hard, children only being 4 or 5 for pity's sake and how on Earth Fluff has managed to get all of her children to where they are and they're only nursery! However, I can't manage to form them into anything coherent and don't quite know what point I'm trying to make. I'd still be grateful for anything else you have to offer. Your ideas always help me to sort things out in my muddly brain! Edited March 26, 2006 by Guest
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 Coming in a bit late here, not a Teacher, senior NN ina Day Nursery - we tend to just make sure there are lots of mark-making equipment and paper everywhere, lots of text around the unit, and lots of good role play opportunities. This gets the emergent stuff flowing, then, when the children are ready, they will ask for assistance (or not!), often 'copying' what they see around them. This means that they are already 'writing' for different purposes, before there is any 'real' meaning to their marks, although they will have 'read' to us what they have written many times. Sorry if I'm being simplistic - I do realise there are other issues in schools Sue
Guest Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 Thanks Sue - and not at all simplistic. I try to get mine to read stuff back to me but often they will say 'I don't know what it says' even when they've come to show it to me! How do you get round that one? I resist the urge to say, 'Well you wrote it,' although it sometimes crosses my mind .
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 The reading back is usually self-initiated, to avoid that kind of episode, having had some distressing times in the past!! It tends to occur when we are actively involved in the children's role play - we had a fantastic episode not so long ago when the children were role playing a cafe - they were happily taking orders and reading back to check, bringing bills and all sorts! It was brilliant, there was even a sacking following a complaint!!!! Sue
Guest Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 Hi Moose I think you are worrying too much You've got to start having more faith in yourself: you are a reflective and caring practitioner and your children are lucky to have you. As Sue R has said, providing real-life reasons for writing in role play is the best and most satisfying way of encouraging those reluctant writers. I will often model these writing opportunities to the class so that they understand the sorts of writing opportunities available. The children will write with a vengeance when it is integral to their play, so it's just a case of finding the best scenario to meet their interests. Keep plugging away! Fox xx
Guest Posted April 1, 2006 Posted April 1, 2006 Wow, why didn't I look here before posting my question. It is so reasuring to see other people are also worrying how they teach writing! You sometimes feel in such a bubble that you feel it is only your own school that has problems, and issues. Sorry to have used your post Moose, but thank you also, I hope you are coping ok now. I am also a newly qualified teacher and there is a lot to think about!! i am really glad I have joined FSF. Stay happy
Guest Posted April 1, 2006 Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) One way to get the emergent writing going - put out post it pads in the role play. We did this in inspection week and boy was the classroom covered in post it notes in no time at all!! Even the inspector got one slapped on her "that's your name badge" She thought it was brilliant. They were on all the doors 'that's to tell you where it goes to', the cupboards 'to tell you what's in them', the sinks 'to remind you to wash your hands' and just about everywhere Those who had been reluctant to scribble, make marks, do pretend writing etc really took to it. Good job there is a cheap supply for us Megsmum Edited April 1, 2006 by Guest
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