Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi all, so day two since i discovered that i had been made manager over the current deputy. The current deputy was upset, (she had applied also) and had been there four years, and was a lot more experienced in managerial than me (i have no managerial experience, but years of supervisory and my degree as well)... for whatever reason i got the job. the deputy is now making my new role (which starts monday) a whole lot harder, she is hiding away in her room, avoiding answering the phone, telling all staff to come to me using the line " go to Dawn she is your manager now" even when they are queries she would have typically answered. why is it that she feels she has to work against me.... i have already told her that she is far more experienced in the day to day running of the nursery than i am, and that i would appreciate her showing me the ropes.... she however is not keen to do that. Take today, the deputy told me that next week i will be doing the food shop (for the children's snacks) so i said, "oh you could help me do the list so i know quantities etc", she then said " NO that is the manager's job).... hmmmmm..... maybe it is the managers job... but i just really feel she is out to make my new role a living hell she is p**sed off that i got it, i can understand that. She doesn't understand why i got it, nor do i really , but the fact is i did. The directors knew that i would need further training and support and i think they banked on my deputy helping to provide that to me..... my gosh i already feel stressed and my new role hasn't started. This job for me is a huge career progression, i mean jumping from senior to manager initself is huge, but i have only been in the company 3 months... I am 25 (this weekend) and this sets me firmly for my future... i want to feel happy and proud, but right now my deputy's attitude is tarnishing it.... wondering do i really deserve that job, or indeed the progression,,..... hmmm, kind of feeling deflated, which is sad..... sorry moan over.... Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_79 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Sorry to hear that and do hope things will settle down quickly. If not, I guess you will have no alternative but to go higher but what about the outgoing manager, cant she fill you in quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I agree with Susan, give her the benifit of the doubt for now as she is obviously upset, try to keep the lines of commincation open, but if she dosnt come round to help you go to higher management and inform them - otherwise you wouldnt be doing your job properly.... Good luck you have done really well, dont let her get you down, at the end of the day you were right for the job not her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 The outgoing manager leaves this friday, i am off tommorow (pampering day, hair done, lunch out! can't wait ) then thurs she can show me a few more things, Friday we are high in numbers and i need to be in the room.... i guess i will learn ways of doing things taht work for me, i mean one way my manager currently does things may not necessarily be the way i may do it... but i guess whatever way i look at it it will be a huge learning curve, and i am very much ready for that but very nervous as well.... i know my capabilities and i know i can do the job, but i think, well know i have loads to learn and it would be nice to be supported in that. hey hum!!! Dawn Sorry to hear that and do hope things will settle down quickly. If not, I guess you will have no alternative but to go higher but what about the outgoing manager, cant she fill you in quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 well relax and enjoy your pampering session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 First of all you are going to have to change your tag name after Monday! I think your deputy is feeling hurt and undervalued at the moment, but maybe you need to stop apologising for your lack of managerial experience and rather go along the 'team building line'e.g. instead of saying 'I don't have the experience to do this' rather say something like 'this is an area you excel in and I would appreciate your input'. That way you are valuing and giving her praise without undermining your own position. Have to say, I was in a similar position some years ago and it was a long hard road of 'creep and go' but eventually we formed a formidable team, so hang on in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3401 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I agree with Raine, your deputy is feeling put out which is understandable she possibly thought she had a good chance of getting the job and you reminding her how much more experience she has than you won't make it easier. I am sure she will come round and with a little tactful re wording like Raine suggested it hopefully won't be long! Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I really feel for you as I'm in a similar situation myself, except that it's a bit easier for me as I've come in as an external person, and in theory do not know that the deputy applied for the post I've got! I am coming up against a lot of resistance recently, and have recognised that we have very different leadership styles. Was reading a book that was recommended to me on this forum last night - 'Managing Staff in Early Years Settings' by Adrian Smith adn Ann Langston. It is WELL worth purchasing. The section I was reading was called 'Dealing with Resistance'. It goes into the reasons for resistance (which you already know), and says that people who put up resistance are looking to gain some control in the situation they are in. It goes through a few light and fluffy ways of what to do about it (all of which are good), but basically states that you need to confront it honestly before it gets destructive. I agreed with it fully. Confronting things are never easy - and hasten to say I went into work today and ignored the whole scenario rather than face it (!!). It wasn't until the end of the day that 2 staff members came to me in confidence and said that they felt the deputy was challenging every idea they had, and they were feeling disillushioned by it. I guess she hasn't got what she wants in terms of the manager's post, so is seeking control elsewhere? I am now 100% certain that I have to deal with it - and dead nervous too - but it needs to be resolved as it won't sort itself. I hope that your deputy comes round once she finds how great it is working with you, and how you value her expertise - but don't let it fester like I have a bit. She's a deputy and you need her support, and the staff need to see that you've got it. Good Luck for Monday - there's loads of good things to look forward to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Good luck to both of you, let us know how you cope with it, maybe we can all learn from this type of situation, keep smiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dawn & Shelley1, Dealingwith confrontation like this is never easy, but if it has got or does get to the stage that you are going to have to address it then I think you just have to bite the bullet. The chances are that they maybe a bit embarressed if you point out how petty they are being. It is not nice when someone gets a job over you but if you can't have a mature attitude about it then the chances are you won't get itnext time either. Although Dawn I would say perhaps try and leave itfor a couple of days to see if things settle down on their own. Good Luck Girls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Some good advice already, early days yet, dust needs to settle, plus a busy end of term period doesn't help either. I give all interviewees feedback after interview, successful or not, detailing how each candidate scored, so that they can see for themselves areas they may wish to develop for future reference and areas they were strong in, it's a shame your deputy ( and you) haven't got this information. Maybe, if you feel the need, this would be useful to ask for. One important lesson I have learnt is that you should not have to feel that you should have to 'justify' your position to people who didn't put you in it. Raine has hit the nail on the head when she say's don't undermine yourself, you need to grow in confidence a bit, this will happen as your actions meet your aims, and your knowledge of the role increases. The deputy needs time and also needs to know where she stands in terms of what you will accept or not ( in terms of work, not mutual support). Start as you mean to go on, be clear, just, and fair in your expectations, mixed messages are very difficult to clarify in the future. It is your job now to motivate the deputy in her current role, not in getting over her disappointment. Don't let her feel that you were 'lucky' to get the job over her ( or let her know you don't know why you got the job over her). This is for her to take up with the employers. I am sure that things will settle in the new term, have a good day of pampering and ENJOY the promotion, all it means to you, and put the responsibility (gently, with compassion)back on the deputy to 'get over' her obvious disappointment, this is not your responsibility. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks Rapunzal and everyone else for their advuice.... I am going to give it two weeks with my deputy to see if it settles down, hopefully it will.. i think as i settle into my role hopefully my deputy's role will also become more clearly defined for both of us.... i do intend to generally talk to her next week about how she see's the nursery developing and what ideas she may have... i want to work with her and the team not against them. will keep you all updated on how this one unravels.... and thanks Shelley for the book reccomendation, i will see if they have it in the library tommorow, if not i will order it of amazon...... Dawn Dawn & Shelley1, Dealingwith confrontation like this is never easy, but if it has got or does get to the stage that you are going to have to address it then I think you just have to bite the bullet. The chances are that they maybe a bit embarressed if you point out how petty they are being. It is not nice when someone gets a job over you but if you can't have a mature attitude about it then the chances are you won't get itnext time either. Although Dawn I would say perhaps try and leave itfor a couple of days to see if things settle down on their own. Good Luck Girls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 The funny thing is (although not funny as in haa haa, laugh funny) is that the deputy had her interview before me and when she came out she told me that she had messed the interview up and that the questions were more aimed at me..... at first i didn't see the significance in that really until after the interview... (the questions were OfSTED (ish), case study scenareo about stress in the workplace, play theorist question, my vision on children's learning and how we would put that across to staff) and then of course our presentation we were asked to do) the questions most certanly were not aimed at me as a person, and i now realise that... they were aimed at the type of manager they wanted.... i was just lucky that i was able to provide the answers they wanted and to come across as a suitable person for the job (reflecting on it that way makes me feel like i do deserve the promotion,a nd i feel i can give myself a pat on the back )... and the deputy's comment that the questions were aimed at me was just an ad hoc comment showing her disgruntlement of her own perceptions of her performance in her interview (if that makes sense?).... so basically, thanks to your words everyone, and reassurances i now feel that i do deserve that job, and you know what i am pretty damm proud of myself for getting it... i have travelled (emotionally and professionally) a long way in the last year to get here and its been hard and i am proud , wanna go and dance around and celebrate hee hee i will give the deputy time to cool down and hopefully the dust will settle. thanks for your feedback everyone Dawn Some good advice already, early days yet, dust needs to settle, plus a busy end of term period doesn't help either. I give all interviewees feedback after interview, successful or not, detailing how each candidate scored, so that they can see for themselves areas they may wish to develop for future reference and areas they were strong in, it's a shame your deputy ( and you) haven't got this information. Maybe, if you feel the need, this would be useful to ask for. One important lesson I have learnt is that you should not have to feel that you should have to 'justify' your position to people who didn't put you in it. Raine has hit the nail on the head when she say's don't undermine yourself, you need to grow in confidence a bit, this will happen as your actions meet your aims, and your knowledge of the role increases. The deputy needs time and also needs to know where she stands in terms of what you will accept or not ( in terms of work, not mutual support). Start as you mean to go on, be clear, just, and fair in your expectations, mixed messages are very difficult to clarify in the future. It is your job now to motivate the deputy in her current role, not in getting over her disappointment. Don't let her feel that you were 'lucky' to get the job over her ( or let her know you don't know why you got the job over her). This is for her to take up with the employers. I am sure that things will settle in the new term, have a good day of pampering and ENJOY the promotion, all it means to you, and put the responsibility (gently, with compassion)back on the deputy to 'get over' her obvious disappointment, this is not your responsibility. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Dawn ...for whatever reason i got the job. It would seem that out of all the candidates who applied for this position, you were the best choice, regardless of your lack of 'managerial' experience. You are obviously a competent and experienced senior in the profession and you obviously have views and visions which your interviewers would like to see. You should not negate your experience, professionalism or anything else, just because YOUR deputy is upset that she lucked out on this occasion. It is understandable that she is upset, if I'm honest, I would probably be feeling the same way, especially if I had her experience etc. But saying that, I would have to acknowledge the qualities that 'won' you the job and act in a professional manner and accept that on this occasion, it wasn't to be for me. You weren't chosen for 'no reason'. I also believe that some settings, especially when they have been run and maintained in a particular way for any length of time, will handle change differently. The staff, I mean! Some might take it in their stride, others may 'play up' to see how far the boundaries can be pushed. It would appear to me that this is what YOUR deputy is doing at the moment because she is upset. Try to see it from her point of view, although this can be difficult when you are feeling euphoric that you got the promotion whilst feeling that she is already trying to undermine you before you even start. Let her make her snide comments to her colleagues for the time being because at the end of the day, she will come off worse. Her colleagues may resent her for not supporting them, so in the future, may not be so willing to approach her. They will then come to you and you can shine! I agree you should allow her some time to calm down and to assess the situation. I agree with Peggy (as always!) that interviewees should be given feedback after an interview, because this kind of constructive criticism will help in the future. Maybe this is something you could think about doing, if interviewing for positions within your setting. I also agree that you should approach the situation if your deputy doesn't come round. It is difficult, but at the end of the day, you are the manager and that is it. There is a chain of command and unfortunately for her, you are at the top of it (obviously apart from your superiors!). I too would go to them and ask for support, particuarly as they know you need support in the early stages of a job you have never undertaken before. You should be proud of yourself and you should not let your deputy take that away from you. You did well and you deserve to be where you are now. Have a lovely birthday, a lovely pampering day (lucky you, very jealous!) and enjoy your first week in your new job!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_5375 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi Dawn I agree with a lot of whats been said already. My only reservation is letting the dust settle for too long as a lot of damage can be done in a short space of time if your deputy is allowed to undermine you in anyway. I have been in this position twice before (not in a nursery but in retail management) - both times I was employed externally as manager in a position where ladies older than myself who already worked for the companies hadn't been promoted. On both occasions there was a lot of resentment to deal with and both of the ladies undermined me at every opportunity with the other staff. In one job I won the older lady over by proving my worth and not getting myself involved with the gossip - she became a good friend. In the other job the older lady never excepted that she was no longer manager and eventually, after a long 18 months, the board of directors built up enough information to dismiss her. It was extremely hard work working with someone like this and she caused lots of problems with other staff by gossiping and telling complete lies. I have learn't from experience to take the bull by the horns and not let problems fester because things can escalate very quickly. I would have a meeting with your deputy and discuss your plans for the future, gently letting her know that you understand her disappointment at not getting the promotion but if she has a problem with it she should speak to your employers because it isn't your fault. I would also have a meeting with the rest of the staff (individually or on mass) explaining the direction you would like to take the nursery and give them the opportunity to discuss ideas so that they feel part of the team. They are probably unsure of who they need to speak to as well. I wish you lots of luck and enjoy the promotion!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Thanks for that Nicki-k actually today was okay, i had chance to chat with the deputy (in the room, so informally but alone, as she was in babies and only 2 of them were in!). the deputy chatted quite freely with me, discussed courses she would like to go on and courses that would be relevant for me in my new role (Maybe a bit of acceptance in there, perhaps!!!).... so we will see how it goes. Tommorow i have my second 'show round' of a prospective parent who is coming to view the nursery for the second time... apparantly he has lots of questions to ask... so i mentioned to the deputy that i may need her help with answering some of them... ie anything to do with wiating lists, fee's, admin.... but i am okay with FS stuff and Bt3 matters... the deputy kind of sighed and went "okay, but you should be fine" (hmmm more acceptance maybe!!!) blimey double whammy.... i think in this scenareo time may heal and the deputy is not going to be such an ogre... at least im hoping that's the case Dawn Hi Dawn I agree with a lot of whats been said already. My only reservation is letting the dust settle for too long as a lot of damage can be done in a short space of time if your deputy is allowed to undermine you in anyway. I have been in this position twice before (not in a nursery but in retail management) - both times I was employed externally as manager in a position where ladies older than myself who already worked for the companies hadn't been promoted. On both occasions there was a lot of resentment to deal with and both of the ladies undermined me at every opportunity with the other staff. In one job I won the older lady over by proving my worth and not getting myself involved with the gossip - she became a good friend. In the other job the older lady never excepted that she was no longer manager and eventually, after a long 18 months, the board of directors built up enough information to dismiss her. It was extremely hard work working with someone like this and she caused lots of problems with other staff by gossiping and telling complete lies. I have learn't from experience to take the bull by the horns and not let problems fester because things can escalate very quickly. I would have a meeting with your deputy and discuss your plans for the future, gently letting her know that you understand her disappointment at not getting the promotion but if she has a problem with it she should speak to your employers because it isn't your fault. I would also have a meeting with the rest of the staff (individually or on mass) explaining the direction you would like to take the nursery and give them the opportunity to discuss ideas so that they feel part of the team. They are probably unsure of who they need to speak to as well. I wish you lots of luck and enjoy the promotion!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 excellent news, will keep fingers crossed that it continues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_5375 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I'm glad you had a better day Dawn - Hopefully things will start to settle down and you can enjoy your new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 sounds like she is ready to move on - good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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