Guest Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Has anyone out there got the same problem as me .I passed my NNEB in 1984 and have been told it is no longer a recognised qualification, I have spent the last year trying to find out what level it is now regarded as only to be different things by different people ranging from it is still recognised, to I only need to top up right down to it is no longer recognised and I have to completely re train !! I have worked with children constantly since passing and have years of experience under my belt, I was told by the DFE that they don't want to lose people like me but that is exactly what they are doing. I have been told I need to do APEL but have heard rumours that it is going to cost nearly £500 and only lasts for 3 years anyway. I will be the first to admit that my NNEB didn't cover everything involved now eg early learning goals etc etc and am more that willing to do short courses to update my knowledge in these areas but why should I have to re train ??? Why should I have to prove that I know what I'm doing ??? Years of experience should count for something shouldn't it !!! We have had new members of staff with the current ' piece of paper ' but they have been useless when it actually comes down to working with the children. Will a current 'piece of paper ' make me do my job any better I think not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Hi Ive had the same problem. I passed mine in 1986 and have heard lots of different things about it. so i asked my accreditation officer what she thought. Her reply was as she understood it that NNEB was fine still as long as you were updating it with regular courses eg foundation stage profiles, ELG training etc. so i have stopped worrying and just getting on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 As I understood it the NNEB is equivelent to a NVQ Level 3 . I aslo have the ADCE which nobody seems to have heard of!!!! Did you do woodworking and car mechanics as part of your course ? Those were the days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I did woodwork , made a wooden clock and a little train with a carriage, really enjoyed doing that . I have also been told that the NNEB is equivialant to NVQ 3 but then have also been told it isn't . who are you supposed to listen to ?? Have chased up the DFE again today !! who are still saying that I am a high level 2 working towards a 3 . You should be able to go to anyone in OFSTED and the DFE and CACHE and get the same answer ............... oh in a perfect world. I must just say that without the DFE who have been brilliant I would have given all this fight a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Hi, My nursery supervisor passed her NNEB 20 odd years ago, too, and regularly attends EYDCP courses, etc. We've just had a Ofsted, and the inspector was happy with her qualifications. Don't know if this helps, or if it is a local problem, ie certain EYDCPs deciding that the old NNEBs are no longer equivalent to the current NVQ3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 hi, i have the same problem with one of my staff. The committee were told that her NNEB done in 1988 was equal to level 3 but she would have to beging to update it. She will begin training for the (CACHE) CPD certificate in personal development at easter. She acually has to run the session on tuesday because i (leading practitioner) am at college that day. Although i think its good that most of you have experience, my staff member only joined us in november last year after having the past 8 years off to have a family. I personal dont think she has the qualification or the experience to run a session, but they tell me ofsted said its ok in an emergency. Well, i dont call every tuesday for the past 5 months an emergency do you? But we just cant get qualifided staff in. I have another member who finishes her level 3 at easter, she has 12 years experience of child care and has been in setting for the past 4 years, my committee tell me that until she passes her level 3 that the NNEB staff member is more quailfied to run the group and gives her the leadership on that day. I dont think this is right or fair, does anyone else face these sort of problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I have the opposite problem , my employers would prefer to give the responsibility to a newly qualified member of staff with no experience but a current ' piece of paper' than let me do it !! 20 years of experience and a NNEB count for nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Ruthie i do not agree with what you are saying...... to earn your NNEB you had to go to college 5 days per week with placements in different setting for two whole years and i feel that if you have this qualification and are keeping up to date with other regular courses then an NNEB is much more qualified than a new qualified member of staff that has only trained for a year ..one day per week!!!!!! By the way hotgrass i also did car maintenace and woodwork (made a shape sorter and lovely pull along set of 3 turtles on wheels)those were the days!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_73 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Ive alwasy found NNEB qualified staff have a much deeper and broader understanding of children than many newly qualified level 3s. Our newest staff appoinment was NNEB, but with lots of current experience, she was by far and away the best candidate. But at the same time, we are expected to take on a completly inexperienced unqualified 'teacher' next year -she has no bits of paper at all!!!! (and yes I am fuming about this....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_439 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hi all, Today was the second day of our OFSTED inspection and I asked the inspector whether the training we are doing, (3 members of our group are currently undertaking NVQ 3's in Early Years), is going to be enough in the next few years? she laughed and said that the NVQ 3 will be fine. Our Supervisor is a qualified NNEB and was told that as long as she (and the rest of us) continue to do other top up training then there is no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Been reading this with great interest and am now wondering if as Helen mentioned it could be a regional thing?? I spent two years at residential college studying for the NNEB, having qualified I spent a further 6 months at a hospital with practical and theoretical study. Time on children's medical/surgical wards and time in ante and post natal wards and the special care baby unit. After another year as a nanny and a satisfactory report from my employer I received a diploma from the college. That was all in the 1970's and since then I have never worked in any other field. I have attneded numerous courses on specific topics and kept myself up to date. I have worked in a variety of settings both in the private and maintained sectors and brought up four childrren of my own. I have undergone SEN training and am the SENCO for our setting, BUT and for me it is a big but, this all counts for nothing. Somone with a recent qualification who has spent one day a week at college and had little experience is considered a better candidate to be deputy supervisor. When we first heard about the "old NNEB" debate ( and it actually relates to all qualifcations not just NNEB) I had the choice of either update/retrain or be unable to be deputy. . I chose to update my training and am currently half way through the Certificate in Early years pratice which is the new level 4 qualification. I am due to finish the course at the end of this year. I have enjoyed the study but am somewhat miffed that I had little choice but to do it. At our recent OFsted the inspector picked up on the "out of date qualifications" and though there was written evidence of current study including pass results for the first part of the course with glowing tutor comments, we were still seen as having staff with out of date qualifications. I think that a diverse range of staff in terms of age, qualifications and experience blend well together - it certainly works well for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I have today received a document from Playgroup Network which is all about the qualifications acceptable for working in early years care, education and playwork. It lists all the qualifications which are not included on the National Qualifications Framework but are accepted for working in this area. The BTEC National Diploma in Early Childhood Studies (Nursery Nursing) after 1989 is acceptable. Older courses will need to be reviewed for validity on an individual basis. But if people working in settings with qualifications pre this date fulfil the following conditions their qualifications should be accepted but in most cases only at a level 2 : they have been employed with no large career breaks since they achieved their qualification they have kept up with relevant new requirements through regular in service training on issues within subsequent legislation including anti-discriminatory practice, equality of opportunity, child protection, health and safety and curriculum planning and early learning goals. I think this is something people should be looking at and asking the inspectors about. Something which came up at the Playgroup Network meeting I attended a couple of weeks ago was the new standards for NVQ's. Claire Power, who is a committee member on Playgroup Network, represents us on the "Technical Experts Group" for the National Occupational Standards which tweaks the work done by the steering group. These standards are the basis for the new NVQ's. The current proposal for level 3 is for 3 mandatory units none of which require any involvement with children. The technical experts unanimously recommended a 4th unit on child observation with child development as the required underpinning knowledge. At our meeting concern was expressed that NVQ levels would be downgraded and the eventual result would be that OFSTED will say that level 3 is not good enough for running a setting. This has all come about because it was felt that NVQ's in childcare were much harder to gain than those for a hairdresser or secretary! As I have said this is in the consultation stage at the moment but it looks likely they will become the new standards. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 sorry all you old NNEB's I understand what you are saying, but in my settings case, the nneb has not worked for 8 years and has as yet done any foundation or learning goal training and this is why i think she lacks experience over a newly qualified. before she started she had no idea about profiles, planning observation etc. the newly qualified has worked in a variety of settings for years and is up to date on FS and ELG training. thats why i feel she is more knowledgable i didnt mean to upset any of you nneb's, i agree that with keeping up to date you are offering a quality service to your settings. I completed the level 3 four years ago and have now begun the foundation degree at the Anglia politecnic university, as i felt things move so fast in child care that i needed to up date my own knowledge. I an NNEB applied for a job with me, i would have problems hiring them, cos my main objective is experience as i have had first hand knowledge of level 3 trained students coming straight out of college, and have no idea how to play with children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I see what you mena Ruthie - looking at your earlier message I would say the "student" would be the better choice to run the session in your abscence. I had a break when I chose to stay at home with my children. When I chose to return to work I got as far as two interviews and did not get an offer from either. Both were for the same reason, lack of recent experience. The qualification on its own was not enough. Both jobs were advertising for an NNEB. I had a rethink and decided to apply for a post that did not specify qualifications as being necessary. I applied for a job as a nursery assistant and got it! I worked for about 5 years there bringing myself up to date and getting hands on experience. I have worked ever since moved to different settings and am now deputy supervisor. we have a member of staff in her early 20's who has an NNEB and worked as a nanny after qualifying and then gave it up to go and work in a shop. She now wants to "get back into early years" so a slight variation to your situation - she has a few months experience with us, is still getting to grips with ELG's,etc etc but yet on paper is better suited to run a session. She's great but simply not ready or really able to take on such a role. There is clearly a more deeper issue here rather than just old versus new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Hi there Reading this with interest. I am recently qualified with anHigher National Certificate in Childcare and Education and I am now doing my Professional Development Award in Childcare and Education. I know lots of NNEB Nursery Nurses and all hail to them. What a wealth of experience. One I know in particular is absolutely fabulous. Up here in Scotland job adverts for Nursery Nurses ask for " NNEB, HNC, or SVQ3 with HIV and First Aid Modules, which means you are eligable to join the Nursery Nurse Board", Experience in working with the 3 -5 Framework for a Curriculum is usually necessary. Note that NNEB is always listed first!!! There is no distinction made between the three qualifications, all are deemed to be equal although very different in their make up. NNEB is very practical, HNC is academic and SVQ 3 is vocational. Hope this helps. Cheers Marathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 But obviously once your NNEB is over a certain age it is not worth the paper it's written on . your wealth of experience and knowledge just disappears !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was told recently of a case where a NNEB with 20 years of experience under her belt was put on the lowest level of pay at work along with people with no qualifications. How fair is that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can understand if these older NNEB's have long gaps in their careers then more course would need to be taken but I have worked constantly. It is just so unfair and its about time the powers that be got their heads together and sorted it out. A recent qualification does not make people better at their job only time and experience can do that, when I think of what I was like when I first worked with children and what I'm like now there is no comparison. You cannot just learn how to deal with situations by just being told or reading about them ,its like anything practise makes perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 well said Hotgrass I totally agree with you. Can i just add that although some days after nursery i do feel 90 yrs of age /.... at 35 i also dont class myself as old...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Hali Are you an NNEB if so which year did you qualify, have you had any problems getting yours recognised now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hi Hotgrass Got mine in 1987... my accreditation officer said as long as i was going courses for the foundation stage etc it was fine. Due to be ofspected next week so will let you know if they think different. Is worrying though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hali I would be very interested to find out what OFSTED tell you, I did my NNEB a few years before you and am a pre-school practioner ( not a supervisor or deputy ) I was told when I started my job nearly 7 years ago that I was over qualified to do it now I'm being told I'm not qualified enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 It's all very frustrating to say the least, I think qualifications are important but equally so is the experience that comes with working within an early years setting. The newly qualified, will hopefully be the experienced pratitioners of the future, and when it comes to the dreaded subject of pay I would expect a newly qualified person (regardless of age) to be on a lower level of pay than someone with lots of experience who has worked regularly since qualifying. At our recent ofsted we could not be awarded a "good" for staff qualifications because two members of staff were "pre 1989" This issue is being addressed in that we are both half way through studying and finish at the end of this year with a level 4.but still we had to make do with a "satisfactory" I may be wrong ( hopefully someone will correct me if so!) but I think it only relates to deputies and supervisors. My boss deemed me suitable to be her deputy due to my qualifications and experience but my NNEB is so old it is not equivalent to level 3. It is seemingly the magic level 3 you need to run a setting or deputise. Old NNEBS working at practitioner level I think are still OK - it's if and when you want to move on or get promoted it becomes a problem. I do think the whole issue is somewhat of a grey area with various answers coming from different quarters and it does seem to vary from area to area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1490 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 It seems different areas do have have different rules. On the Q.C.A. qualifications website it states that pre 1989 is equivalent to a level 2 which is suitable for an assistant in pre-school. In my area there are lots of supervisors with pre 1989 and they are refusing to do anything except continue to update with current thinking. I am updating my pre1989 level 3 but I feel it is a time wasting exercise to satisfy Ofsted. The group is not bennefiting from this as I am spending a lot of my spare time writing 1000 word essays on many of my procedures.I am not learning anything just how to type faster. How can that give me a higher qualification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Hopefully you all read the other forums but if not we are all trying to get the recognition we deserve. People that have older qualifications are faxing their local MP's highlighting the situation and the way we are unhappy about the way in which we are being treated. Any one with an older qualification please fax on www.faxyourmp.com The more people that do this the better, I am posting on other websites as well and people are sending me messages saying they have just done theres so if you can help please do so and if you can think of anything else we can do please let us know , we must all stick together and try and do something about this. One lady has also mentioned the fact she is so unhappy about all the paperwork so feel free to mention that as well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 If you can think of any other websites where we can post this information let me know !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Have a look at this and tell me what you think, I have to wait 7 days before I can add a guestbook but I'm working on it. www.freewebs.com/fedupnnebs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1999 Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 WELL DONE!! I am in the queue to sign the guestbook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 People are starting to get replies to their faxes . One lady today had one and it said that he was concerned that after 15 years of experience she was being told to do a level 3 qualification. It said that her fax was being passed to the secretary of state education and she would recieve a reply. Please please please advertise my site for me www.freewebs.com/fedupnnebs If you can print the home page off ( in landscape format ) and circulate it to local pre-schools I would really appreciate it. My website now has a message board so please post on it and I will keep you all informed with the latest news. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Two more people have got replies from their MP's , I have spent a lot of today e.mailing as many pre-schools and nurseries as possible If it doesn't get us anywhere it won't be for the lack of trying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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