Guest suziees Posted May 27, 2003 Posted May 27, 2003 ok i am soooo confused!!! (nothing new there) so if i have a child who attends 3 days a week, i can claim what? at monet i would claim child attends 3 dyas and so i get 33 sessions funded!!! is this child entitled to more? or am i loosing the plot altogether? someone please put me straight, suzanne
Steve Posted May 27, 2003 Posted May 27, 2003 Hi Suzanne - If your child only attends 3 sessions a week, you should be able to claim the 11 * 3 = 33 sessions, plus (eg in a 14 week term) 3 * 3 = 9 sessions; making 42 sessions. As long as you don't go over the 11 * 5 = 55 sessions a full time child would have you can claim for a part time child over the full term. This is good news, yes? Regards, Steve
Guest suziees Posted May 28, 2003 Posted May 28, 2003 thanks steve, but i am still confused! are you saying that a child attending my part time preschool for 3 sessions each week over a 14 week term can actually claim 42 sessions funded? am i being dumb? when we fil in the proforma/headcount, how whould i do that, it only asks name/address/dob/ and amount of weekly sessions. it never asks how long i want to spread the terms money! so my form goes off saying 3 sessions for child x and they pay me 33 sessions money, how would i make it clear to them then? from confused of london
Guest Posted May 28, 2003 Posted May 28, 2003 hi Steve, Your Early Years must be very much on the ball!! I rang mine about this last week, only to be told yes, it had been pointed out to them by another pre-school and they were going to have to discuss it at the next partnership meeting - when will that be ??? - didn't ask as I didn't want to make too much of a fuss and I have made contingency plans !!!. My way round all of this is that from Sept 03 - July 04 we are only going to be open 34 weeks and 3 days of this will be staff training days - however I do feel I might be pushing it a bit as we are not going to re-open until the 15th Sept - when are others going back ???????? Byeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Janice
Helen Posted May 28, 2003 Posted May 28, 2003 Hi Suzie and Janice That's quite correct Suzie! If you have a child attending 3 times per week for a 14 week term, you may be able to claim 3 x 14 x grant value. The document states that 14 weeks is the maximum number of weeks you can claim for, and 55 sessions is the maximum number of sessions. You can get a copy of the "Code of practice on the provision of free nursery education places for 3 and 4 year olds, 2003-2004" from the DfES on 0845 6022260. On page 8 it says "LEAs may wish to allow providers to spread these 55 sessions over a term of up to 14 weeks" Of course, if they don't wish, then....! When we started to realise that this might be possible, we began to write in huge fluorescent pen next to the weekly session claimed for, the total number of sessions in the term. In addition, we stuck a post-it on the front of the form stating that we were claiming for 14 weeks. Cheeky, I know, but it worked, and the next term the forms were changed so that they now include a "how many weeks are you claiming for?" column. I can't take sole credit for this; there must have been other providers in my County who did the same thing!
Guest suziees Posted May 29, 2003 Posted May 29, 2003 hi steve and all well thats it i am ringing my partnership today!!!!!! wish me luck. i wonder if they will say it depends on the borough your in!!!!! will report back what they say asap!!! suzanne
Guest suziees Posted June 3, 2003 Posted June 3, 2003 hi steve and all well my partnership look like they are going for it!!! i was told that it is possible to claim over the 14 weeks but as the form does not allow for providers to make it clear how long they are claiming it for, it was suggested i just put that a child attending 3 sessions as 4 sessions instead (even though they wont be attending 4) more info when i get this in writing!!!!!! suzanne
AnonyMouse_63 Posted June 4, 2003 Posted June 4, 2003 Good news...I rang our partnership today and was told that we may be able to claim extra grants from September Carol
AnonyMouse_75 Posted June 16, 2003 Posted June 16, 2003 we are in the process of registering for NEG and the process is taking ages! but Im finding all these coments about ages, numbers of sessions etc are handy and I can ask the questions as I go along giving the illussion that I know what I'm doing!! someone mentioned the teacher mentors being useless, so far mine has been wonderfull and given lots of help about useful contacts and training opportunities...... so their not all a waste of time. I plan to do research into the NEG next term as part of My HND and will probably be back soon with lots of questions Im trying to decide which issues to cover such as the way NEG has effected early years particularly playgroups. any suggestions would be welcomed.
Guest Posted June 16, 2003 Posted June 16, 2003 I work in a more "well off" outer London Borough (though many residents would question this - housing ranges from 7+bedroom detached mansion to 1 bedroom high rise flat!). Anyway in December we were told by Early Years that children would receive funding in the term after they were 3. We have now received a letter to say that 'Sorry' due to powers that be, from September 2003 Nursery Education Grant will only be available to children in the term before their 4th birthday. Attached to the letter is a table showing when children will be eligible to receive the NEG. This goes up to 2005. I.e. children will not receive the grant until they are nearly four, irrespective of when they were born. Have I missed the plot somewhere or have the Government not pledged a 'free' place to all 3 and 4 year olds from April 2004. Many providers and parents are counting on this pledge to give much needed additional funding. On a personal level, I shall be writing to my Early Years Team, the Local Council**, Councillors, MP's and Government Departments in protest and as a member of my branch PLA committee will be encouraging others to do the same. What do others feel about the Nursery Education Grant? We seem have been sucked into the 'Education System' with the Early Learning Goals and submission of Profiles without any thought to additional funding. Our termly funding is the same as last year but wages, rents and other costs have all gone up and how will overstretched groups cope in the Autumn with the increase in minimum wage and more recent National Insurance increases. Wouldn't we all love to pay our staff more - but how? **I don't know how other areas operate their budget but (I am led to believe that..) the 'Nursery Education Grant' is not sent from the Government to local councils as an NEG package but it is part of a whole range of 'social services'. So if councils feel the money is needed elsewhere, the NEG may suffer. This is particularly felt in boroughs which have tried to manage their budget well and not overspend - their funding may have been cut, and they don't want to increase council tax - Sorry getting political here! My main point is - have any other areas found their funding cut. What can we do about it. We are constantly being told how important Early Years are, but get nothing for it and little recognition of the job we do. I'm just tired of hearing the bickering in small groups and want to make the bickering more widely heard and our profession recognised for the valuable job we are doing. I'd love to hear your views. Let's finally start a National Campaign for Greater Recognition! Dear All, NEG funding - have you read the SureStarts Code of Practice for the provision of free nursery education places 2003-2004(turquoise) 24 pages in total. Is this not the Bible of the NEG Grant. I am not an unintelligent person but do they make hard work of it! Do three year olds qualify for funding - it seems to suggest that and I quote "From April 2004, all three year olds will be entitled to three terms of free nursery education" p6, Point 16, but reading some of your discussion I am not so sure if this is universal and if the amounts which each provision gets is universal either. How can anyone possibly be expected to plan when there seems to be so many differences! Is there or is there not funding for 3 year olds from April 2004? This statement seems fairly clear to me or am I missing something on the remaining 23 pages! This document then goes on to say that "LEA's, in conjunction with the EYDCP's, will set the rate at which they fund settings for the free places they provide .... ensuring the rate they set is sufficient to enable settings to provide session of nursery education" .... each authority has a minimum level of funding for each three year old place of £416 per term" p19, pint 96 so why do there appear to be so many differences! What does anyone else get - I'm hoping for £416 for all my three years in April 2004. Nikki
AnonyMouse_75 Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 we are still in the process of registering...... i am getting mixed messages about what happens if a child attends our playgroup in the mornings and them a LEA nursery in the afternoon the EYCDP tells me that children are entitled to both and we can claim the grant (provided that the LEA nursery doesnt claim as well) When my own daughter attended a free LEA nursery they claimed her grant and I was told that I couldnt have a place at the nursery if they couldnt claim her grant money. we have one or 2 who will be attending that same nursery in september and also playgroup and I am not sure who will get the grant money us or the local LEA nursery? and I am wondering have I just registered for nothing? I hope you can understand what I am trying to explain!?!?!?
Helen Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 Hi Alison, We have one or two children each year who attend a couple of mornings with us (for whom we claim NEG), and then attend the local state nursery for five afternoons. They don't therefore claim the NEG. Hope this helps.
Guest Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 The children are only allowed 5 two and a half hour sessions per week. If they are going to attend an LEA nursery that's where the money goes. If, like us in Stockport, parents accept a nursery place the children have to attend five sessions-no option there!If they then chose to send them to a pre-school as well then they will have to pay the pre-school fees. I am 99.9% positive that they would not be able to attend an LEA nursery if they weren't going to use their grant there-I know that is what happens here. The money can be split between none maintained settings-so a child may attend a private day nursery for two days, using four of their nursery grant sessions, and a pre-school for two sessions using the remaining nursery grant for one of the sessions and paying for the other one. Or any way the parents want to use the money. They could even attend two pre-schools splitting the grant between them. But they can only have 5 sessions worth of grant. Hope this clears things up for you. Linda
Helen Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 That's really interesting, Linda. If that is the case, then my EYDCP have been making huge mistakes about this!
Guest Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 I don't know whether I have made it clear??? Children can attend both LEA nurseries and pre-schools or private day nurseries and do more than five sessions but they will only get the grant for 5 sessions and that will go to the LEA nursery. Does that make more sense? We have children at our pre-school who come to us for five mornings and then go to an LEA nursery in the afternoon. The grant goes to them and not us. Linda
Helen Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 Hi Linda, Yes, you have made it clear Yet, for the last two years, one of our children has been receiving the NEG for the two sessions here, and also attended the state nursery for five afternoons (therefore no charge there, either). We haven't given false information to our EYDCP, having completed the forms by saying the child attends the state nursery in addition to us. So, I guess, they have either made an error, or, in our neck of the woods, there is different criteria involved.
AnonyMouse_75 Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 Hi the mixed messages that I am getting is - a child can attend both sessions(preschool and LEA) but it is at the descresion of the LEA nursery. Some LEA's will allow the children to attend without claiming the grant but the majority insist on claiming the grant. I think sometimes it will depend on the parents circumstances. another question is most LEA nurseries in my area have sessions for 2 hours 15mins how can they qualify for grant? parents are loosing half a session a week!!!!! did I miss something in the small print?
Guest Posted July 8, 2003 Posted July 8, 2003 How strange!!! I thought that the whole of the country was supposed to be following the same format under the grant system-this obviously isn't the case. I can't find my booklet about it at the moment-lost under a pile of paperwork somewhere!!! Why are they only open for two and a quarter hours?? It seems hardly worth it!! We are open, for our main session, three hours and the parents think it is wonderful. At least they can get something done in that time. Our LEA nurseries are open two and a half hours, which they all moan about because no sooner have you dropped the little darlings off and they have to be picked up again. And, quite frankly, we have difficulty fitting in everything we want to do in three hours so how do they do it in such a short time??? I think I am going to get onto Playgroup Network and see if they have any answers. I will keep you posted. Linda
AnonyMouse_75 Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 finally I have a straight answer from the EYCDP after a week of missing and crossing messages the person-in-charge of the admin for the NEG in my area told me that any children attending an LEA nursery couldnt claim grant at playgroup as well. The parents have no choice about this if they attend an LEA nursery then they have no say where the NEG goes the LEA nursery takes pressidence. I feel relieved that they have confirmed the situation I had always thought this to be the case and that children couldnt claim for both but another EYCDP officer told me different which ment I then gave false info to parents which I have since had to apologise and and correct (very embarassing) while on the phone I forgot to ask "why the LEA nurseries get away with 2 1/4 hour sessions?" call me sad but my little head went into over drive and figured that nurseries are claiming 5 sessions a week and over 2 weeks the children are recievingequivelent to 9 session instead of 10 this will quickly mount up over 12 months to be alot of money the parents should be able to claim that and use it towards playgroup session fees it seems a shame that after getting settled for 12 months at playgroup we loose the majority to school nurseries when many parents would like to mix and match some nursery sessions and some playgroup session but are forced to choose one or the other because the nurseries insist on all children attending for 5 sessions a week.several would love to keep one or two sessions a week at playgroup as well. On the Plus side Im glad we are finally registering we are already seeing the benifits in the group. and I am so glad to see that well run playgroups can now get a piece of the pie for their efforts
Helen Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 It seems really odd that our system seems to be so different. Perhaps next term (when another of our children will be at our nursery for 2 mornings and the LEA nursery for 5 afternoons) things will have changed!!
Guest suziees Posted July 24, 2003 Posted July 24, 2003 Hi all have not had time to post lately but update on my eydcp on the neg subject. i had a conversation a while back re claiming for children attending less than 5 sessions and if we could claim over the 14 weeks etc well intiatly we were told mmmm well ok yes you can. but then was told oh you best actaully clear it with the head of eydcp (as the admin who i spoke to was only passing on the intial message and was a little worried she may have got it muddled) well i left message after message on head of eydcp's voicemail and well that was at least 4 weeks ago and guess what...........i'm being ignored. so went back to the admin/support worker and guess what she is unavailable too now!! the joke is they are based at my sons school and i know they are there!!!! hiding from meeeeeeeee. well i am just going to go ahead and claim in sept for the extra sessions if they are not proffesional enough to speak with me then i will just go with the first answer i got which was YES. regards suzanne
Guest Posted August 12, 2003 Posted August 12, 2003 Hi all In my funding handbook it states that a session must be a minimum of 2 1/2 hours long to be eligible to claim funding. We have to get the parents to sign a form stating how they want the five sessions devided up if their child attends another setting, which is kept by us in case of queries i.e. the other setting claiming for more than they should. I have had to use this as one setting tried to claim for all 5 sessions and I was claiming for 2. I got my 2 sessions paid don`t know about the other setting, mum wasn`t happy with them though. ( the forms come with the headcount pack each term). Hope this helps not confuses
Guest Posted September 15, 2003 Posted September 15, 2003 dorset will only fund 11 weeks regardless of whether a child attends one or five sessions per week, but do fund a term earlier than some, we are on the somerset border and have children attending from somerset, who are funded a term later, we have children of the same age with some funded and some not, though dorset are a term behind when it comes to funding children from other counties, it all gets very confusing when filling in grant forms, we now charge parents top up fees for any weeks above 11 weeks + 1/2 hour per session as we run 3hour sessions not 2.5 hours, this is a pre-school setting, does anyone do this ? deb.c
Guest Posted September 26, 2003 Posted September 26, 2003 'Free education for all 3 and 4 year olds' Hmm ???!!!! In Wiltshire our children get funding for the term before their 4th birthday. 3 year olds CAN get it, the term after their third birthday, if they fit into various categories: SEN, income support, working families tax credit etc, but this has to be applied for by the parents ...with a covering letter from a 'suitable' professional. Needless to say Early Years professionals don't qualify as such!... We have to ask Health Visitors to sign! Last year the three year olds received funding automatically but Wiltshire County Council underbid and now they can't afford to follow it through! Thanks to reading here about the 11 week / 14 week issue, I contacted my EYCDP who said that I could claim for extra sessions but it would make it hard for them as their forms don't cover it!!!!!! Do you think that stoped me?!! To give them their credit, they did say to still do it. We get £7.56 / two and a half hour session for up to 14 weeks. I'm shocked to see how much variation there is out there! Anna
Helen Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Our system has changed again 1) If a child attends the LEA nursery, they cannot claim the NEG for our sessions. (Our EYDCP has at last caught on!) 2) If a child attends 2 (PVI) settings, they can only claim for 11 weeks of each term. If they attend 1 setting, they can claim for 14 weeks!!!! Where did the "up to a maximum of 55 sessions" go to? It goes from the sublime to the ridiculous
Guest Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 It has gone to the ridiculous level with us! we are situated on a border, so we have some children in Beds and some in Bucks,we are actually on the Bucks side! beds wont pay for their children to come to a bucks setting and visa versa - but as we are a tiny village most village children come to us, only prob is if they are on the bucks side they get funding if not then oh well!!!! we have tried speaking to both sides but there is no give. we are the nearest playgroup to these children so what gives? all 3 and 4 year olds get their funding the term after their 3/4 birthday, and at the moment we are lucky as most of the 3 year olds are getting the funding ( as long as they live in bucks that is ) we have just been reminded that we are missing out on money as we do not charge the parents top up fee`s - so we are in the middle of discussions now about what we should do. we have decided that where in the past we have worked all of the teacher training days, when the schools have been shut- we will now keep the playgroup shut until the schools open. woo hoo- so that means i have monday next week off!!!!! kim
Helen Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Hi Kim, This is clearly ludicrous, isn't it? If you can't get any joy from the EYDCPs or LEA, how about seeking the advice of your local MP? With all the stuff in the press about the new early years directorate etc etc, I'm sure s/he would like to get involved and sort this one out! We've approached our MP (Norman Baker) about things in the past and he has been both receptive and dynamic in his responses. Who is your MP? Anyone we know?
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