Done Something Wrong Today

[AnonyMouse_3139]

I always try and always, hopefully, suceed in working to the pace and ethos of a setting. I read Ofsted reports before I go there and read policies when I arrive.

I ask questions and if I really dont like something, bring an anecdote into the conversation where I can draw on experience of doing things in other ways.

Today, I couldnt help myself and cuddled and chatted to a child who for the second time that day had been put into the baby room I was working in as a punishment .(he is a challenging little wottsit, but lovely)

He was shouted at and told to 'sit there, I'm very angry at what you did'. He was sat on the floor and left. He cried, not really seen him do that before, so I went over and said I was sad to him in trouble, could he tell me why he was here. He wouldnt speak so I asked him to help me with a small job. The person who had bought him into the room came back in and shouted at him for moving from where she'd put him. I said it was my fault but she left the room and complained to another staff member that I'd undermined her.

Hands up, I did. But I hate children being seperated like that, I've never, ever done it, and I really feel this lad cant do good in some peoples eyes anymore. The lable has well and truely stuck. If I'm good at my job I can deal with unwanted behaviour in a more productive way. But I know I shouldnt have done it. Apparently it's in their policy to remove the children, I'm going to check on Monday.

Tell me I'm good

On the one hand I think about how I'd want my children treated, and it aint like that, and on the other I dont want to make enemies of staff.

[AnonyMouse_4544]

I agree it would break my heart to think my child was being treated that way and Id be guilty too.............isnt work politics a mine field

[AnonyMouse_1195]

Oh Rea I would have done what you did. This is a small child who doesn't need labeling but needs to build his self-esteem and feel accepted for who he is. What a difficult situation for you to be in. I would never advocate behaving in the way your setting staff do. A child should not get away with poor behaviour, but does need to feel accepted for who they are and the adults should be demonstrating in a positive way to behave not creating a negative feeling in the child. Oh dear how sad. Perhaps you should quietly demonstrate this type of behaviour mangement and hope that they learn something by observing what you do.

[Guest]

I think you did the right thing,

 

It is also in our policies that if a child can be removed from the room as a tool to deal with 'problem' behaviour. However it is seldom used, and if it is it is not managed like how you described.

 

A child in my setting may be removed to the office, never to another room (as it belittles the child more) and is calmly spoken to by the member of staff instigating the discipline. (if im in the office i won't get involved unless asked to do so) the member of staff will explain to the child why they had been removed and then would ask the child to stay there for a period (one min for each year of life) and to think about what has been done. (staff will stay in office but busy self and not interact with child during this thinking period) after the thinking period the staff will talk to child, reiterate why they have been removed from room, ask child to go and apologise if necessary, child then joins room and matter is dropped.

 

I would be very cross indeed if i saw a child removed to another nursery room, firstly it puts pressure on the staff in the room you are removing the child too. and secondly it is public humiliation in front of other children, granted they may be younger but still its unfair to put the child who has done wrong into a situation where they become a speactacle to the other children. Not to mention some staff can't refrain from having a second go at the child who has been placed in the room (thankfully for the child in your room you talked to him/her calmly and reassuringly) but i have seen some staff further shout more at the child who is normally rather upset and confused in the first place.

 

so i think you did the right thing, stand by your morals and explain how you feel about the method of disciplining the child. it is not our place to humiliate and upset a child. Granted i know the child had done wrong, but there are better ways to deal with it.

 

anyway my opinions only LOL

 

Dawn

[AnonyMouse_6361]

I think you did the right thing too.

 

The poor child's self esteem must be shattered that if he as any left. This setting sounds familar exept I worked in a nation chain of nurseries. Shall not name it but I give you a clue one of the big chains in the country! Anyway I worked on supply to the nursery not far from me. The first time I saw a child from the 18 months to 21/2 room take to the 12 to 18 months room. I was not happy that should be happening then I remember that this is part of the chain of nurseries was on the nursery program a while ago. So a few weeks ago I went back for a couple of days and notice that things have improved dramitclay. But the staff still have a long way to go!

 

On another note I was talking to someone today who told me that all her nursery nurses in the agancies don't want to work in DN because of the way the children are treated. It seems everyone wants to work in schools these days, better working conditions, hours, schools are providing a service were as DN are a business first then a serivce. Well this is what came out of this converstaion. Sorry to any fab day nurseries out there! Ummm I wonder if theres any near me?

 

Beth

[AnonyMouse_1469]

you did the right thing.............................in our group, children have "time out" by sitting quietly at the writing table, with an egg timer(we have several, with different times on them from 1, to 5 minutes) this has worked brilliantly, and I have known children to turn the timer over again if they feel they need more time to calm down! Our group ages from 2-5's. But I think this little lad was treated horribly and you definately did the right thing

[AnonyMouse_1027]

i would have done exactly the same, they were very wrong with how they dealed with it, and i would have told them so!!!!! (brave hey!)

[AnonyMouse_705]

I couldn't stand by and watch a child cry all alone like that either. If time out has to be used as a last resort, a member of staff would sit next to a child to wait for them to calm down then speak to them.

 

Today I got scratched down my arm quite deliberatly by a little boy whose behaviour before hand had been unacceptable. I sat with him at a separate table in the same room but away from the other children and rubbed his shoulders while he was crying as he was obviously upset. I helped him out of the situation he had got himself into, then he went off to play quite happily with praise for his subsequent behaviour.

 

Very difficult for you but I think you did the right thing.

[Guest]

Yes I think you were right too. We have a couple of tinkers who will not sit down for anything, we do however ask them to take a book with them into the other room say during group circle time if they want to. Most of the time they say "oh yes", and off they go, sit quietly at the table reading to each other. I think this might say something about my circle time and the age of the children - but they are more than happy with this arrangement.

 

I can understand, (doesn't mean I agree though) why this happens in FDC, personally I would feel really exhausted at being on top of things for 40 hours a week, often 10 hours a day - it is unrealistic to expect staff to give their best for 10 hours with young children. Lets face it most parents don't have to, they can go out in the car, visit the shops impromptu, run in the rain, whatever or divert children - working in a FDC where often this is not possible is pretty hard.

 

However, this child was clealry upset and you were right to talk to him and ask him why he had been sent out - he probably didn't even really know why so this was an important part of the process to see if he understood. You were not undermining the other staff - if a child has been spoken to about an incident then quite often one of the other staff will talk to them confirming what had been done wrong and trying to get them to understand why it was and what they could do to make sure it didnt happen again.

 

Role modelling is important and I think you were right. I cannot believe that they (the staff) felt good about the way they dealt with this. I know I certainly wouldn't have.

 

Nikki

[Guest]

I think you were right and acted in a caring way even if it went against the settings procedure for handling behaviour. I feel some staff sometimes 'accelerate' a procedure - for example - how long was he put in the room should certainly be no longer than one minute for each year of his age.

I would be surprised if their procedure advocated shouting at a child! I'm not sure physically removing a child to another room is on either, unless he was harming himself, someone else or something else.

He obviously responded to the request to help you - perhaps his key worker should get back to basics, talk to the Behaviour Officer, if they have one, and plan a more suitable, effective, humane way to help manage this poor childs behaviour.

At my setting, we have a sheet at the front of every policy and procedure - if during the course of the day, because of a particular situation, we feel the policy/procedure need amending - we date and make comments on the sheet and suggest an amendment is necessary - this would them be discussed at a staff meeting.

 

God, I just want to give him a hug and some praise too!! (((((((((( )))))))))

 

Well done you XX

 

Monica

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Thank you

 

I'll think of a stratedgy to talk to the staff member who says I undermined her and try harder to show through example different ways of managing behaviour. I'm also going to read their policy and refer to that. I did get her to start a sticker chart for good behaviour, not a brilliant idea but a start in looking at positives, not sure what happened to it though.

The thing is, she doesnt work alone and she's not the only person I've seen put him in time out in this way. I'll think of something, thanks

[Guest]

I have experienced this too Rea, I think some practitioners build a personal battle with children with challenging behaviour and your were definetly right to do what you done, it's instinctive anyway isn't it?

Policies are wrote to be adhered - but we also have to treat children as individuals and maybe this kind of segregation isn't working for him, poor lad, I want to cuddle him too!!

 

It is difficult to make a stand but you wouldn't be you and such a good carer if you don't stand by what you believe, don't feel bad, look at all the support you have here, we all now how hard it is too take it back to the setting though, you are on your own, good luck.

[AnonyMouse_64]

He was shouted at and told to 'sit there, I'm very angry at what you did'.

 

Goodness, what a strange behaviour policy to have! Is this really written down? Remove the child from the room, shout at them in a threatening way, don't explain calmly to the child why they are being removed and leave them to cry by themselves! Maybe if it was then some of the parents may not be as keen to put their children to the nursery.

 

I have just had a quick look at the Full Day care : Guidance to the National Standards document

 

(found here)

 

and on page 49 it states what the adult role is when dealing with children's behaviour including

 

"avoid damaging children's self esteem. For example, by humiliation, segregation, withholding food or using a naughty chair."

 

Maybe they should be directed to look at the document and rethink their behaviour policy in the light of it.

[Guest]

Beau beat me to it, exactly what I was going to refer to.

 

Monica, was a brilliant idea, having a sheet for comments in front of each policy, a workable way to ensure policys are reviewed 'in action' so to speak. I am going to follow your example and put that idea into place at my preschool. I will also note, in short observation form, ie: the how, when I see policies not being adhered to. Thank you.

 

Rea, I am sure you will manage the situation in a tactful and successful way to ensure the best interest of the child and other children in the setting. Your experiences certainly show the pro's and cons of supply work.

 

Peggy

[AnonyMouse_3139]

Thanks Beau, I'd forgotten all about those

Pro's and con's Peggy? Read my blog!!

[Guest]

I would have done the same Rea, the little people don't deserve that kind of treatment. What sort of message does it give them. Good for you

[AnonyMouse_75]

Rea, I was in a similar situation, it was nearly the end of session and I heard a member of staff shout at a child and then rather abruptly take the child to the book corner as a form of time out and she towered over him and told him he had been naughty. I was shocked paused for a moment trying to think of the best way to diffuse the situation without undermining the member of staff. I decided that as it was nearly carpet time (which is normally in the book corner) and went over book corner and called everyone over for a total change of activity and the distraction of a new activity helped defuse the prior situation without me making any fuss of the individual child.

 

all though in general there is not excuse for losing it with a child it is difficult to keep your cool when you have just been hit on the head with a hard toy.

 

I didnt deal with that member of staff immediately I needed time to think and I wanted to speak to her with a clear head as I was feeling so angry at the way she had reacted to the child, the next day I took that member of staff to one side and pointed out I was unhappy with the way she had managed the situation when the child had done something wrong, I recomended that she re-read the behaviour policy and suggested she considered a behaviour management course to help give her some new ideas of ways to tackle behaviour

 

she acknowledge that she was harsh in her actions but refused to go on any behaviour managment training, I am glad to say she no longer works in my setting, she decided a few months after that inccident to make a complete career change.

[Guest]

Hi Rea,

 

I believe what you did was the 'right' thing to do. If a child displays unmwanted behaviour then

 

there are better ways of dealing with it than putting him in a room where the children are younger - this ujndertone of the child regressing is very negative.

 

I firmly believe in doing the right thing. Yes you may have gone against the procedure but think about the bigger picture. You were there for this child 'emotionally' - his confidence, trust and emotional well-being are far more important than this frankly unnecessary way of dealing with unwanted behaviour.

 

Good luck,

 

Kate