Guest Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I am looking for some help really Where I work we have a number of children that have care orders etc and them and their parents are under the supervision of keyworkers and social services etc.. Basically the parents have additional needs not the children. Any way I am keyworker to a couple of the children and I have been told that 1 particualr child's social worker is coming in to observe and would like to see thier 'IPP'. Apparently all of these children are expected to have one??? I have B23 obs folder for the child etc which has all the observations etc. But I have never had reason to do an IPP for her. She is 2.2 years and through my observations, planning etc etc , I haven't seen anything that worries me. We have now an then come up with care situations where I support mum with information, such as dealing with odd tantrums etc, basically information sharing but I am wondering if anyone has had to do something like this? I know people use the term IPP for different things, but i have used a play plan format for children who i may feel have particular areas or needs that we can provide activities for using targets, review dates etc and mostly these have been when i worked in the foundation stage. I am slightly confused at what they are asking for and unfortunately they are coming Thursday!!! Are they automatically assuming that because the mum has needs that the child has? Any advice gratefully accepted Just re-read my post and noticed I liked the word etc alot!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 do they mean IPP (individual play plan) that each of our children in the setting have or IEP (indvidudal education plan) which children with particular needs have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Well they are saying IPP but I know people call IEP's, Ipp's , so its confusing. We don't have IPP's for all our children, we have their personal folders that record their progress through B23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 To be honest if you have observations and assessments on the children that is what they are looking for. I expect they want your opinion on if you think the child has problem the same as parents. I've had children with care orders because of the parents needs and you sound as though you have all the information they will need. Maybe do another observation on the children before thursday if not write up a few notes on the child's behaviour. we are so used to do observations on children that have problems you can do one for them to show they don't have problmes . bless them difficulties arise when the children over take the adults level. good luck hope it goes well. just don't worry about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Trisha, your observations, assessments and records sound very thorough and if there is no need to have an IEP for the child then there shouldn't be one! If they mean IPP, then every setting goes about these in different ways but the outcome is the same - that you have used your observations and assessments of the child's development, progress and interests to plan appropriate future activities and experiences to build on those and promote further learning. You have nothing to worry about and I don't think you should rush around making extra paperwork now - just show here what you already have, it sounds fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thanks for all your advice. I think I will show them her folder and go from there, if they want more they will have to tell me exactly what and wait for it!! After a recent conversation it appears that the child I see at nursery is somewhat different from the one at home, but it seems it's more to do with the parenting, proper routines and stuff. At nursery she is what i would call a 'normal' 2 year old, developing well and testing boundaries etc as they all do1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 So your paperwork as it stands is absolutely right then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Update: Had the meeting today with mum, mum's keyworker & social worker. The face says it all! Apparently, all children with care orders have to have these PEP folders of which she showed me a copy. Seperate from any obs folders or senco folders. They follow them from settings to schools all along the line while they are under shared care orders (mum & social). First I knew about them! :wacko: We have never been given anything like it when the children started or been told about them before. So then we had to agree on targets for her and as you know I didn't have any as such. So they insisted we make some. They decided (not me) " Encourage to make sentences of 2-3 words", "Say please" & they wanted "To learn her colours" Then I refused to accept this, they agreed for now and want to put on next one!!!! Then decided to set a review of this PEP in 6months!! I said I thought that was a ridiculous amount of time and that it should be sooner. Finally agreed another date. There was a lot more than this but I've tried to sum up. So I'm left with waiting for some co-ordinator to send these so called PEP folders over for the 5 children we have with orders. Plus arrange regular PEP meetings for each individual child with their individual social workers. Setting targets, 4 are under 2, 1 of them is only 6 months!! And photocopying all their obs folders to send to their S/W's Am i wong in thinking this is just ridiculous. I know there is always more paperwork with children in these circumstances, but really targets for 6 months! come on....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 By the way, this is all on top of regular meetings already being done between keyworkers mums and S/W's. By the way, this is all on top of regular meetings already being done between keyworkers mums and S/W's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Your last post says it all - ie: doubling up I have heard of PEP's for children of statutory school age (personal education plans) but not for children as young as yours. I have had children in my setting with care orders and all I had to do was write a brief report of their progress for their 6 monthly review meetings. At these meetings we would sometimes, but not always decide on some areas to develop at the preschool, these meetings also included for others to do, things like health plans, ie: sight/hearing/ test etc. I really would seek more advice on this, only for the reason that your current bs and assessment and therefore 'next steps' are already in place, possibly ensure parent is informed of these and maybe ways in which you plan to achieve them. The plans you describe are rather vague and timescales given ( 6 months) are fitting around the SWorkers meeting schedule and therefore not necessarily around the childs developmental progress rate ( if you know what I mean). Ask yourself ( and the SW) who is actually going to benefit from this duplication of work? If it is the child then great, but in reality it is just extra work. Ask the SW who is going to fund the extra time it takes you to produce these plans? ( we don't get paid to attend meetings either, do we ) A brief progress report under the 5 outcomes ( which is the format for my reports I write for my foster children) should suffice for these review meetings. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Just a thought, the 'targets' given are a bit vague, make sentences of 2-3 words ( how many sentences do you know of that consist of 2 words?) , What type of words? As for saying 'please' Why expect a 2.2 yr old to say a word that has no meaning to him or her????? because they have to? I can think of many more things to encourage a child to say that is much more relevant to the child. I think manners are important and can be taught ( at this age) through example, but giving this ( learning manners) as a 'target' is not the most important thing in this childs life at the moment. Sorry, I just remember a few years ago I observed a practitioner giving a child a biscuit, she held one side and the child held the other ( lets pretend it was a square biscuit, even though it was a round one with no sides). The practitioner held tight repeating to the child "say thankyou". The child looked with no response. I just looked and thought, a dry biscuit, haven't had a drink yet and she's meant to be thankful? , I wouldn't be. ( sorry pet hate of mine) Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2732 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Must agree there, Peggy, with the last bit!! Equally, I don't insist a very young/immature child says 'sorry' - all you teach is a magic mantra! They need to understand the issues, at their level. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I agree with everything that has been said. It seems to me that you are just being asked to duplicate effective systems that are already in place and produce extra paperwork? You already produce targets/next steps for ALL your children, why produce a "separate" set for this purpose? Could these people not start from what you already produce, which seems to me to be very thorough and effective, and maybe just modify the format themselves if they want to? I hope that all make sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 The format of the forms/folder has KCC logo at top and apparently there is training to go with it!!!! I have a meeting this month with parents and followers already (which we have on a regular basis) where I have to write a report. This is stated in a letter from KCC confirming meeting date. So this is on top of this new stuff. My manager wasn't impressed either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 you could try this link for more info PEPs KCC website There is a guidance paper on DFES, but couldn't find it However, the link I have given may just be for statutory school age, not sure about early years, although of course we have a rsponsibility to meet the needs of LAC in our settings. Not sure that 'educational personal plans are most appropriate for under 3's. As soon as the term 'education' is used, expectations are linked to FSC rather than BTTM. Good luck, keep us informed. On the link at the bottom of the page is the contact for the Kent LAC advisor. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 PEPs flow chart ( from Kent ) also has FAQ re who does what, amount of work, storing etc appears that these have to be done for children aged from 3 years. Peggy pepflowchart.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sqpeg Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hello haven't got time to reply at moment - dinner to prepare ironing to do! but I am going on this training this week. However have already come in contact with this sqpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Thanks loads Peggy, that is extrememly useful, just been looking through Have found a section on Early years and has some information about 18 months onwards, need to read all of it. We have been having LAC reviews for all our looked after children for some time but they never asked where this PEP folder was before! Oh well back to reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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