Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 HI a member of staff at my nursery has asked me to ask you if pre-schools are allowed to refuse entry to children who will not use the toilet to poo. This child is toilet trained in terms of needing a wee, and will ask for a nappy on for a poo... she had her visits to pre-school and all seemed okay, but on her first day (yesterday) the pre-school teacher told her mum that they would not accept her until she poo's consistently on the toilet. Can they do this?, incidently this little girl was three early april this year... if that makes any difference. can anyone tell me if pre-schools can exclude on this basis Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_6021 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I don't think they can. We've never refused a child, whatever they're age, because they're wearing nappies and I know that even school nurseries in our area take children in nappies. They don't like to but they can't refuse entry for that reason either. Karrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 It would depend on what their policy document said, which the parent should have been given. However if the child was only 3 in April she is not eligable for Early Eductation Funding until September. Therefore, the pre-school may have some policies specifically for entry if the "under 3s". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_6541 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 They are not allowed to exclude children for this reason, for the simple fact that some children do take longer to attain the language and developmental maturity required and children who have special needs can be in nappies for a long time, plus you have medical conditions etc... I think there is a clause that the parent can be contacted to come and change the child, but our local schools just do it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 you cannot refuse a child in nappies or who soils, or discriminate against them by calling in a parent to change them.... "This comes under The Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) Any admission policy that sets a blanket standard of continence, or any other aspect of development, for all children is discriminatory and therefore unlawful under the Act. All such issues have to be dealt with on an individual basis, and settings/schools are expected to make reasonable adjustments to meet the needs of each child. Asking parents of a child to come and change a child is likely to be a direct contravention of the DDA, and leaving a child in a soiled nappy for any length of time pending the return of the parent is a form of abuse. " This was taken from a sure start document Leicester City LEA guidance for all foundation stage providers Previous topic here including links to other topic and document quoted above. Inge and also more here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1027 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 no we would certainly not refuse a child for this and as i am aware nor should any nursery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_3735 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 (edited) just a word of caution too... a parent complained to Ofsted that we did not change nappies or refused entry because of the child not being toilet trained.... big investigation by Ofsted.... unfounded in our case and they could see all policies were in place and followed through, they checked our facilities but we had a note put on file about this even though it was unfounded. hence my knowledge on this subject.. receipt of education grants do not come into this one it is a care issue, and a policy excluding on this basis is seen as discriminatory. Inge Edited April 19, 2007 by Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaryEMac Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 As the others have said we are not allowed to refuse entry to a child because of a toiletting problem. We are getting more and more children in wearing nappies or pull-ups but it doesn't seem to take too long for them to progress to wearing pants. I think that being with other children who are using the toilet helps.It's not actually very often that we have to change a nappy so it is not a big issue in our playgroup. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_2846 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 we do take children in nappies now but we didnt at one time and always got round this by saying we havent anywhere to change them,well we still havent its on the floor on a changing mat in the toilets by the basins basically but they may be saying this is the reason wether they still can use that as an excuse I dont know sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 And I have to add that there are a fair few parents who will SAY that their child is toilet trained when they start nursery and actually they are no further forward in their training than other children whose parents say that they are NOT toilet trained! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I am interested in this and basically agree with what is being said, but sometimes you are caught between a rock and a hard place. I had aboy in a reception class who had several problem, one of which that he filled his pants several times a day. I was often on my own and we could not get any money, to have support for him. What was I supposed to do with the rest of the class while I dealt with him? I was extremely angry being in that position and felt it was unfair for everyone all round. My head asked mum to come and change him in the end. He did not improve for a year. I have moved since so do not know what has happened since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_1469 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I agree with everyone else on this issue..........you cannot refuse to take this child in because of nappies.I have a little boy in exactly the same situation and although i realy can't get my head round why he needs to poo in a nappy, but will happily go to wee in the loo,it's his choice and that's it! (..though I'm working on it..............stickers/stickers/stickers......praise +++++++++++ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 We are school nursery and now take children at all stages of toilet training. we have recently had child who was toilet trained but still asked for nappy when she needed to soil - mum was keen for advice on how to move her on from this stage and this was the suggestion I found by doing a web search... begin by putting the child in their nappy but then sitting them on the potty/toilet (most children I have know who choose nappy, stand to soil). next step = line potty with nappy then sit child into it, after that should be able to move child onto to simply sitting on potty. I had no involement in carrying out this process but mum used it at home and is now very pleased that little girl is happily using the loo. Took approximately half a term. hope this might help others. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_7317 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 THAT is a really good idea nsunshine we will pass that on to a couple of my parents who may find it helpfull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 No they cannot refuse however last term we had a child that every single session with out fail was doing a poo in his nappy and we believed that he was coming in like it as it was dried on if you know what I mean. We asked mum several times to make sure she checked him before the session started so changing him wasn't the first thing we were doing and she wasn't. In the end I mentioned her checking him again and she took him out. We never excluded him and we never treated him any differently we just asked her to check his nappy before she left the building, she said she was but she wasn't where would that leave us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonyMouse_8235 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 In our preschool we take children who are still in nappies. I really do not think you can refuse a child who still wears a nappy as it goes against most of the policies we all have to adhere to, e.g. Inclusion, SENCO, equal opps, DDA. I would contact your local early years support team or ofsted to get futher info if i was you, just to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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